Bahu Virupaksha

Join Date 09/2004

The idea of Europe is dying: The national states are rising

Is there hope of a united Europe

Right from the days of antiquity, an undercurrent of European unity lay simmering. In fact, one can even read the famous Histories of Heodotus as an argument for Eropean unity, a point Antony Paged argues very eloquently in his Worlds at War This idea of Europe was furtehr reinforced by the notion of Christendom and of course, the Holy Roman Empire. Christmas Day AD 800 was indeed a remarkable day well worth remembering even as we see that idea getting unstuck. The German war crimes of World War II and the more recent history of ethnic cleansing and racial profiling has to a large extent delegitimised the idea of European unity, but Europe has survived as a hope. Now it seems that the dream run is over and the discredited notion of nationalism and nation state are once again rising to the foreground. The latest to join the debate on the future of united Europe is Niall Ferguson whose history of money, finance and banking are both informative and interesting.

The economic crisis and the eurozone mismanagement especially with regard to Greece have brought old doubts back to the surface. While the nations of Europe want to share propersity and good times, no one wants to bear the burden of debt and finacial restructuring. The IMF has imposed severe conditionalities on Greece and that country is in turmoil. What is interesting is that the rest of EU seems totally unconcerned. The Treaty of Maasstricht is unlikey to be the basis of a new Europe. What is unfolding before our eyes is the unraveling of the ideas of Jean Monet and Jacques Delors, both founders of the European coal and iron union, the forerunner of the European Common Market. The Schengen Treaty which allowed freedom of movement is already a dead letter. I do not have to point out that now serious differences have emerged between the European Union and NATO, the military arm or the Delian League of the US.

With the rise of Le Pen in France and with right wing Governments in place in UK Europe will see the rise of nationalism and slowly but surely European Union will die a natuarl death,

european union nato

Locked Post

Advanced Search

Watch this post

Do not email me updates for this post Email me updates for this post

Successfully updated karma reason!

Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

discredited notion of nationalism and nation state

Rather sweeping assumption that.

I never expected Spain & Germany to be like California & Texas. Too many deeply ingrained cultural differences for the EU to work, at least in the same sense the US works.

So in that, I agree with you. Given the absence of alternatives, however, I'm not so sure what's 'discredited' about nation states. Seems it's the concept of EU that's discredited.

Successfully updated karma reason!

So in that, I agree with you. Given the absence of alternatives, however, I'm not so sure what's 'discredited' about nation states. Seems it's the concept of EU that's discredited.

Look at the history of the 20th century starting with the Armenian genocide, through with the Holocaust, then the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, then sundry wars big and small all faught under the banner of the nation state. As the great historian EJ Hobbawm says, nation states are the engines of destruction. Intolerance, ethnic cleansing, identiy politics of the lowest kind have all symptoms of the malaise of the nation state. It is taxic to the core and Europe tried a different political route and its time, I'm afraid is over.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

I don't see how you can think some other political structure would have avoided any of those things. There is a further problem - the perceived benefits of alternative political structures are pure speculation. There is nothing intrinsic to organizing as a nation state that makes it evil or 'discredited'. What people do with their nation state is the issue, IMO.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The social trends in Europe are not quite encouraging. It is conventional to speak of a dying society, I do not want to say that. compared to the situation 4 to 5 decades back, Europe has become more insular and ethnic conflicts are not the rise. The Gemans killed the Jews during World WAr II, the Turks killed the Armenians, the Bosnisan Muslims killed the Serbians and vice versa and now it is free for all against the no white population of Europe. I think it is ironic that the Empires handled diversity much better than the so called nation states.

Successfully updated karma reason!

Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

What do you mean by 'free for all against the no white population'?

Successfully updated karma reason!

What do you mean by 'free for all against the no white population'?

Is it an accident that NATO has attacked Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, flown drones over Pskistan etc and what all these societies have in common is that they are not of European stalk. The myth of Islamic terrorism is used to demonise these socities in order to bomb, kill mutilate human beings. What NATO and by this we mean USA, UK and France are doing in Libya is alsolutely unjustified.

Successfully updated karma reason!

The idea of Europe is dying:

Yes, it is and this sad state of affairs of contemporary European reality has been known and warned against for years. America ought to take notice.

Eropean unity, a point Antony Paged argues very eloquently in his Worlds at War This idea of Europe was furtehr reinforced by the notion of Christendom and of course, the Holy Roman Empire. Christmas Day AD 800 was indeed a remarkable day well worth remembering even as we see that idea getting unstuck.

Ah yes, Christendom..when Almighty God and the Faith that built her was in the picture. The same Christendom that produced the cathedral of Notre Dame and brought the intellectual contribution known as the university system.

There are reasons for things. Europe is, as you say, "getting unstuck" because they refuse to retain their Christian heritage and culture.

But it's worse than just getting unstuck. By losing their Christian roots, Europeans are signing their death warrants.

Check out the EU Constitution. The EU could not bring itself even to acknowledge the continent's Christian heritage in its constitution. That's right....no mention of Europe's Christian roots, however atheistic humanism has been advanced manifesting itself in declining birthrates to the point Europe is not having enough children even to reproduce itself.

So how is abandoning the Faith that built Europe and adopting atheistic and secular humanism working out for the Europeans? George Weigel answers this in his book, "The Cube and the Cathedral, Europe, America and Politics Without God" which I highly recommend reading.

This unpleasant reality "is putting huge burdens on the European welfare state and creating a vacuum into which Islamic immigrants are cascading".

Successfully updated karma reason!

Let's do some truth-telling.

It was a few years ago that Mark Steyn was taken before the Canadian Human Rights Commission and the British Columbia Human Rights Tribunal for writing an article that they claimed "subjects Canadian Muslims to hatred and contempt" and was "flagrantly Islamphobic".

Steyn got in big trouble for writing, "There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe--without swords, without guns, without conquests. The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades. Just look at the development within Europe, where the number of Muslims are expanding like mosquitos. Every Western woman in the EU is producing an average of 1.4 children. Every Muslim woman in the same countries is producing 3.5 children."

I think Qaddafi said basically the same thing.

Successfully updated karma reason!

June 29th update

Professor Richard D. Wolff "Austerity Programs"

Successfully updated karma reason!