Bahu Virupaksha

Join Date 09/2004

Israel,The Gaza Blockade and International Reaction

Why Israel cannot afford to be recalcitrant

Israel enjoys a high degree of goodwill in many parts of the world and even professional critics of Israel have found much to admire in the manner in which the State of Israel conducts its no nonsense foreigh policy. The world opinion be damnned. As long of USA is not overly critical Israel does not seem to care. The lastest outrage committed on the high sea seems to have taken even the Obama Administration by surprise and Hilary Clinton has joined the rest of the world in condemning Islaer's action in using military might against a flottila carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza. The world has come to recognise that the economic blokade imposed by Israel is causing untold misery to the people of the Palestenianterritory. If by following this policy Israel hopes to undermine the support base of the HAMAS, the policy is claerly not succeeding. In fact the blokade has only increased the level of public acceptability of HAMAS. The economic blokade has failed in its expressly stated purpose but has succeeeded in imposing collective punishment on the people of Gaza for electing the Hamas.

Israel has used unacceptable level of force in dealing with the flotilla carrying, afterall hum,anitarian aid to the people of Gaza. The boat did not carry any military equipment or even machinery. It only carried tents, balnkets, medicines, school text books, toys, food aand relief material. Israel could have allowed the passage of ther aid flotilla insteasd of brutally attacking and causing the death of 10 aid workers. Video footage shows the Israeli paratroopers rapelling on to the deck of the vessels and opening fire. Israel's claim that they were atrtcked first carries no convixction as the aid flitilla was on international waters when the incedent happened. I do agree that Israel has a very difficult security environment and aslo recluctanly have to conced that the security wall, often called apartheid wall has given security to the civilians as there have been far fewer suicide bombings now than before. By saying this we should not be encouraging Israel with its hard straecraft, though it is enviably successful.

The War launched against the residents of Gaza in 2008-2009 resulted, for the first time in the 65 year history of Israel in a withdrawl without achieving any major strategic objrective. The rockets attacks have stopped but for how long remains open to question. The degradation of the Hamas and its military capability has clearly not been achieved. Under these circumstances Israel could have been more circumspect.

There is yet another issue causing international disquiet. This is to do with Israel's nuclear programme. The Barack Obama administration is obsessed over Iran's nuclear material even though Iran has complied will all its obligations under the NPT to which Iran is a signatory. The nulear matwerial exchange agreement signed with Turkey and other countries effectively puts Iran's spent fuel under international scrutiny. Israel on the other hand in not a signatory to the NPT and has been carrying out a covert nuclear amrs program for the past 3 to 4 decades in a facilty in the NEGEV desert.The revelations of Mordechai Vanunu the Israeli expert has proved to the whole world the existence of the nuclear program. US experts believe that Israel possesses around 100 warheads just a screw driver away from deployment. Under these circumstances peace in the Middle East will look a dismal prospect.

Israel must respond to the consistent US call for a return to the Road Map and the process agreed with the quartet.

israel attack flotila apartheid wall gaza hamas

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Israel must respond to the consistent US call for a return to the Road Map and the process agreed with the quartet.

When has these Road Maps to peace worked? The only way that it will work is if the PA admits that Israel is allowed to exist. When has giving land for peace worked? In psychology, they have a saying 'past behavior predicts future behavior.' With PA's past behavior you can expect the same as well as Israel's response to it.

You said that the flotilla was for humanitarian purposes then why did it not go through the channels set up for humanitarian aid. I've been and lived in Gaza DOES get a lot of aid. North Korea has a blockade, why not go there? Sudan needs foreign add more than Gaza does, so why does no one give a flip about Sudan. Forget about George Clonney (spelling?), he only was concern for Sudan for about 5 minutes.

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Sudan needs foreign add more than Gaza does, so why does no one give a flip about Sudan.

The situation in Darfur and Gaza are not comparable.

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The world has come to recognise that the economic blockade imposed by Israel is causing untold misery to the people of the Palestenianterritory.

One of Hamas' greatest problems is that too many Gazans are using facebook.

Untold misery with Internet access is one of the more ironic achievements of the early 21st century.

The situation in Darfur and Gaza are not comparable.

I just happened to compare them:

http://web.me.com/ajbrehm/Home/Blog/Entries/2010/6/5_The_Blockade.html

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The rockets attacks have stopped

They have?

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Israel must respond to the consistent US call for a return to the Road Map

The PLO decided to withdraw from the "Road Map", not Israel.

Why not ask the PLO to "respond"?

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It's all very simple... the world loves a winner, yet can't wait to see them toppled. It's human nature. Look at the Tiger Woods incident. The media that praises his ability, couldn't wait to put him through the meat grinder. It's the same with the US and Israel. Other countries hold their hand out to the US and flip it the bird with the other. The world was proud of Israel, surrounded by enemies and holding its own, now they are upset when their defend themselves. What has really changed? Nothing. Win, but not too long. Even if it means rooting for the villain.

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The world has come to recognise that the economic blockade imposed by Israel is causing untold misery to the people of the Palestenianterritory.

Why do you blockade? Sorry Bahu, but that is a stupid statement.

I will also relate a comment I heard from a liberal on the radio recently. If Palestinians lay down their arms, no more war. If Israel lays down its arms, no more Israel. The choice is clear. If it was your very existence at stake, you would have a different viewpoint.

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http://www.examiner.com/x-36012-Yemen-Headlines-Examiner~y2010m5d30-Three-week-blockade-of-South-Yemen-brings-starvation-and-violence

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The world was proud of Israel, surrounded by enemies and holding its own,

That was never how Israel was seen in Europe.

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That was never how Israel was seen in Europe.

I'm speaking in generalities of course. The teachers I had at the time (Six Days war and Yom Kippur war) seemed to support Israel, do you think the teachers in US schools today advocate Israel self-defense? Some perhaps, but I'd be willing to say the sympathies today trend more toward the "poor" Palestinians.

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Most of the world didn't and don't know where Israel is.

What you say is true for the US only.

Israel remains popular among non-Arab and non-Turkish peoples in the ME (I have never met an Iranian who didn't hate the Iranian regime and liked Israel*) and most black Africans, especially in the Sudan.

Some perhaps, but I'd be willing to say the sympathies today trend more toward the "poor" Palestinians.

Certainly not toward the Kurds or black Africans.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

Ah, yes. Another sanctimonious homicide-bomber apologist prescribing what Israel 'must' do. The only surprise is that it took you so long to post it, Bahu.

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Turkish Kurds (i.e. Kurds ruled by Turkey) come out in support of Israel:

http://kurdistancommentary.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/turkey%e2%80%99s-terrorist-bias-part-1/

http://kurdistancommentary.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/comparing-kurds-and-palestinians/

I have had a Kurdish flag in my living room for years. Even when Israel supported Turkey in the war against the (Syrian-supported) Kurdish terrorist organisation PKK I supported Kurdistan.

What the current times should teach us is that Arab and Turkish claims to ruling the entire middle-east have nothing to do with peace.

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Quoting Leauki,

reply 13

Turkish Kurds (i.e. Kurds ruled by Turkey) come out in support of Israel:

http://kurdistancommentary.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/turkey%e2%80%99s-terrorist-bias-part-1/

http://kurdistancommentary.wordpress.com/2010/06/04/comparing-kurds-and-palestinians/

I have had a Kurdish flag in my living room for years. Even when Israel supported Turkey in the war against the (Syrian-supported) Kurdish terrorist organisation PKK I supported Kurdistan.

What the current times should teach us is that Arab and Turkish claims to ruling the entire middle-east have nothing to do with peace.

Leauki, as you can attest to this. In Iraqi, the Northern Kurd population polices themselves very very well. Unlike the other parts which have problems. I do think this is why Turkey was getting aggressive. In a way, to show support to radical Islamic groups, yes Turkey does have a disdain for Kurds.

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If any group should get their own country its the Kurds. Again look at Iraqi, they're not rioting or bombing or demanding their own country. They're preparing and showing that they should have one. Thoughts? Agreed? Disagreed?

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The only problem with the Kurds is that their land is resource poor.

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Quoting Dr Guy,

reply 16

The only problem with the Kurds is that their land is resource poor.

Kurdistan is fantastically rich. Saddam took Kirkuk from the Kurds because of the oil fields. And south-eastern Anatolia has water resources that control Syria and Mesopotamia.

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A Turkish islamist defends Israel:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704025304575284721280274694.html

A Kuwaiti news paper defends Israel:

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4342.htm#_edn1

Isn't it interesting the Arab media and Turkish islamists are trying to calm things down while the European media call for blood?

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Ah, yes. Another sanctimonious homicide-bomber apologist prescribing what Israel 'must' do. The only surprise is that it took you so long to post it, Bahu

This statement is absurd. I have not even once supported the fanatics who kill either in the name of religion or political ideology.

National self detemination was the weapon used to break up the Ottoman Empire after word war I. Today nationalism and its cohort the nation state have beome irrlevant.

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This statement is absurd. I have not even once supported the fanatics who kill either in the name of religion or political ideology.

In defence of Bahu, I have seen him defend Israel and condemn Hamas openly and loudly during the Gaza conflict. When Israel and the world needed the truth, Bahu was there to provide.

National self detemination was the weapon used to break up the Ottoman Empire after word war I. Today nationalism and its cohort the nation state have beome irrlevant.

Why would nationalism and the nation state be irrelevant? In the ME most nations are still stateless.

The injustice of handing over Ottoman- and European-ruled territories to Arab regimes has not been resolved yet.

The ME has to be redone from the west to the east.

Morocco and Algeria will have to start respecting the native (Berber) populations, allow Berber parties and make Tamazight an official language. Libya will have to be totally reformed. Tunisia and all Arab states will have to be confronted about expelling their Jewish populations and stealing their land.

Egypt will have to recognise the right of the native Christians. The Arab tribes in Sudan will have to stop killing all the Africans. The Arab government of Somalia will have to let those Somali tribes go that want to be ruled by the dictatorship.

"Saudi-Arabia" will have to respect other religions (and Shiites). Syria will have to give up the occupation of Kurdish lands. Iraq (and Kurdistan) will have to accept an Assyrian state.

Turkey will have to recognise the Armenian and Assyrian genocides and grant independent to the Aramaean and Kurdish land it occupies.

And Iran will ideally become a monarchy again.

There is much to do. None of it has much to do with Israel.

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Daiwa

Join Date 07/2001

+351

This statement is absurd. I have not even once supported the fanatics who kill either in the name of religion or political ideology.

In defence of Bahu, I have seen him defend Israel and condemn Hamas openly and loudly during the Gaza conflict. When Israel and the world needed the truth, Bahu was there to provide.

I extend my apologies for mischaracterizing your views, Bahu. I still contend too many pretend to know 'what Israel must do', however.

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"Saudi-Arabia" will have to respect other religions (and Shiites).

This slowly happening. The RCC is working to get the administration to recognize the Christians there. While the gov't may not respect other religions yet the local level is showing signs of more tolerance. A friend of mine was just over in that area and was telling me the best way to find a church in that town was to ask a Police Officer. lol

So while the upper gov't may not be showing respect the masses are.

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Why would nationalism and the nation state be irrelevant? In the ME most nations are still stateless. The injustice of handing over Ottoman- and European-ruled territories to Arab regimes has not been resolved yet.

In defence of Bahu, I have seen him defend Israel and condemn Hamas openly and loudly during the Gaza conflict. When Israel and the world needed the truth, Bahu was there to provide.

I extend my apologies for mischaracterizing your views, Bahu. I still contend too many pretend to know 'what Israel must do', however.

That is all right. We have known our views over JoeUser for long and somemistakes do happen. No Sweat.

Thank you.

This is important. I believe that after World War I, when the Ottoman Empire disintegrated the Allies, particul;arly Great Britain and to a lesser extent France wwere interested in creating a ring of client states. Remember that Russia had already become socialist. I do not say, as there is little evidence to prove it, that Standard Oil dictated the foreign policy of great powers. But the Liberals of that age allowed themselves to be pursuaded that "national self detrermination" should be the wave of the future.The half-formed societies of Asia, this happy phrase is of V S Naipaul, latched on to this concept to drive the Ottomans out. In Egypt under Ottoman rule the Jews enjoyed security and a lot of latitude for business (see the wonderful work by S D Gotien on the Geninza records) and with Arab "nationalism" promoted by that darling of the Liberals T E Lawrence all this was lost. I believe that NATIONALISM and the Nation-State are the engines of war and destruction and we are seeing the consequences of this in the ME.

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and with Arab "nationalism" promoted by that darling of the Liberals T E Lawrence all this was lost. I believe that NATIONALISM and the Nation-State are the engines of war and destruction and we are seeing the consequences of this in the ME.

The Arab nationalism promoted by Lawrence was the pro-Zionist Hashemite monarchy. If they had prevailed, we wouldn't have the mess today.

But that Arab nationalism was replaced with Nasser's pan-Arab nationalism modelled after European fascism. Hitler's allies among the Arabs gained the upper hand and the Hashemites were abandoned by the Europeans when it mattered most, in the 1920s.

The point is that apart from the Jews no non-Arab nation became independent.

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The Arab nationalism promoted by Lawrence was the pro-Zionist Hashemite monarchy. If they had prevailed, we wouldn't have the mess

The Wahabi fascist state of Saudi Arabia with the rag heads House of Saud as its absolute monarchs was the creation of the British policy along with the Palestine Mandated territories, the caUSE OF ALL THE PROBLEM NOW.

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