Dahmer.

Jowhn Wayne Gacy, Richard Speck, Juan Corona.  Some, like Mouranis and Manson we know were neglected as children.  Others, we may never know.  Especially now that every serial killer "was an abused child" regardless of whether that is in fact true.

"Can you imagine that some parents might actually have to go through this and would think this way?"

Yes I can.

Here's a link you might find of interest..

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990CE7DF163BF93BA2575AC0A963958260

Somewhere online is an interview Jeff Dahmer's mother did,  that would shed some light also on a parent's feelings.

 

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1285/is_n3_v24/ai_15409039

I would guess you would have to be blind to miss the signs of a serial killer. I have read a few accounts of some of these guys and each of them had many of the warning signs.

I had to face that fact when my brother in-laws kids were living with us. The girl exhibited 9 of 10 signs of a serial killer at 13. (my sis works for a head doctor) It was easy to see this girl was seriously messed up. She accused her oldest brother of rape (untrue) and then later admitted to abusing her younger brothers. I was sad to see the boys go, but not her. I knew it was only a matter of time before her acusations turned to me.

I was sad to see the boys go, but not her. I knew it was only a matter of time before her acusations turned to me.

I guess my question, and perhaps Forever's, is: Was this the fault of the parents?  parents can overlook a lot in the name of love.

YES I AM RAISING TWO SERIAL KILLERS!!!!

They are hell on the Cheerios!     

I don't have any experience as a parent. But I have to wonder if there is anything a parent can do if the kid is born a psychopath, with a lack of conscience. Is there such a thing or is that just tabloid nonsense?

I would imagine long term abuse could cause a child to switch his reasoning off and become non-feeling, dehumanized, such a way that hurting others would be a way of getting back or the only way they know how to relate to others.

For those serial killers who have no history of childhood abuse, but was neglected; could be that the parents see the signs and fear them, and thus resulting in neglect because of this fear that they can't put their finger on? Parents, I guess, hate to think of their offspring as potential monsters, their response would be to ignore the disturbing signs and possibly ignore the child. (Edit: changed poor phrasing. I mean the parents simply deals with it by ignoring the signs.)

Was this the fault of the parents? parents can overlook a lot in the name of love.

I don't think the parents did anything to make the situation better. They locked themselves in their room on Sundays to have sex all day. I suspect this was not only the time she molested her brothers but also the inspiration. The parents were abusive to each other. They lied and the parents didn't hide it from the kids.

When I was talking with the youngest about the things I have automated at my home, I told him my caller ID was announced. His response was, "Then we will know when the bill collectors are calling." He was only seven.

They couldn't afford their bills but had regular nights out with their friends. The fathers main interaction with his children involved the playstation or computer games. When he wasn't doing that he was verbally abusive to all of them and physically abusive to the oldest boy.

The mother had an eighth grade education and instilled the same values in her children. She is an amazing pastry chef but can't be relied upon to complete a task even when given months of notice and all necessary supplies.

Were the parents to blame? Like I said, they didn't help the situation.

However, crazy is crazy. In a positive, supportive environment the girl was mostly able to adapt. Even with that adaptation, she still spent many weeks in the looney bin (I know that's not PC but until you've walked in my shoes...).

The best example I can give is her birthday party. She invited several kids from school for a sleep over. Each of them were not close friends at school. She also invited the girl down the street who went to another school. All of these girls should have only had one connection, the girl. That wasn't the case. While some of them were not friends at school, they either went to church together or their parents were friends. They all had multiple connections to each other.

She turned her back on her own party. She was unable to deal with these girls as a group because she was not the same person to all of them.

She was to each of the girls what they were looking for in a friend. None of the personalities was her own. She was completely unable to function with the group. Had it not been for my wife and I throwing her an amazing birthday party, I feel like the girls would have been squirming for a way to go home.

Environment is a factor. Parenting, or lack there of, is a factor but it takes someone who is missing the voice that we all have that says when things are wrong. Instead, I believe, their voice says it's ok or there is no voice at all.

Lots of children are abused and don't become serial killers. It's a psychology cop out.

True Mason, however, most ALL serial killers are abused as children. It's not a cop out but a fact.

Heres an example of the flaw in your logic:

1) All homosexuals are sodomists (true)
2) All sodomists are homosexuals (false)

See?

The first research paper I ever wrote in college was on Jeffrey Dahmer.

A child drawing something disturbing (as mentioned in the article) is different than a young child killing and mutilating animals.

Lack of empathy would be a greater red flag than anything else, in my opinion. Lots of children and adults are fascinated by the violence and the macabre. That doesn't make us potential serial killers.

I think that people who have it in them to act on those fascinations are not hindered by a "good" upbringing or conversations on distinguishing real from fantasy. They are fundamentally different from the rest of us.

Jeffrey Dahmer had a messed up childhood (heh, going all the way back to his mother's pregnancy with him), but I don't think it could be called abusive in any traditional sense. From a very young age it was clear that he "wasn't right" and his parents certainly didn't attempt to intervene, but I don't think it would have mattered.

I had to face that fact when my brother in-laws kids were living with us. The girl exhibited 9 of 10 signs of a serial killer at 13. (my sis works for a head doctor) It was easy to see this girl was seriously messed up. She accused her oldest brother of rape (untrue) and then later admitted to abusing her younger brothers. I was sad to see the boys go, but not her. I knew it was only a matter of time before her acusations turned to me.

OMG!!! That's horrible! By the sound of it, you're right about accusations at you being next!

Parents have little influence in this area I would imagine. If you give your kids a good start and a good home, then they'll turn out ok

Yes, you can give them a good home etc., But being there, showing and giving love and affection, very important for younger children and if they don't have anyone to show them this at a younger age, then they grow up without knowing and get influenced by the wrong types or things. So I would say parental influence is very important.

I guess my question, and perhaps Forever's, is: Was this the fault of the parents? parents can overlook a lot in the name of love.

I didnt' ask it but that's a good question.

Most serial killers have dysfunctional backgrounds. Frequently they were physically, sexually, or psychologically abused as children and there is often a correlation between their childhood abuse and their crimes.

I would say that would be my guess too Xythe. As I mentioned before,parental influence. But I haven't read that link Trudy cited yet, so who knows what Jeffrey Dahrmer's mom had to say. That might be enlightening.

YES I AM RAISING TWO SERIAL KILLERS!!!!They are hell on the Cheerios!

Captain Crunch beware!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha...



You know, sometimes the things your kids do would make you wonder where they learn that from?!! Sometimes my little one exhibits such deviousness, makes me wonder!

I don't have any experience as a parent.

Your opinions are stil important Raven. Yours might be the objective opinion that sees more than we as parents do.

But I have to wonder if there is anything a parent can do if the kid is born a psychopath, with a lack of conscience. Is there such a thing or is that just tabloid nonsense?

That's a very good question! I don't know the right answer. I would say a parent can't do anything about it if the child is born predesposed this way. If they see the signs early in the child's life they can try to make a difference. Would it help, I don't know.

Reply By: MasonMPosted: Wednesday, November 15, 2006Lots of children are abused and don't become serial killers.

I would imagine long term abuse could cause a child to switch his reasoning off and become non-feeling, dehumanized, such a way that hurting others would be a way of getting back or the only way they know how to relate to others.

Well, you both offer good points. In my opinion it can go either way. As Mason says most children who are aboused don't become psychopaths, but there are those who do and yes, I beleive some use that as their justifciation. So, are we correct in assuming that they are sickos and defective as M said? I would say we are. Cause why else would someone be this way and take pleasure in doing stuff like that, then walk around normal?

but was neglected; could be that the parents see the signs and fear them, and thus resulting in neglect because of this fear that they can't put their finger on? Parents, I guess, hate to think of their offspring as potential monsters, their response would be to ignore the disturbing signs and possibly ignore the child. (Edit: changed poor phrasing. I mean the parents simply deals with it by ignoring the signs.)

Another good point again Raven. Some parents would feel overwhelmed and ignore it; some may get help, if they do get the proper people to respond to their needs. Some parents might even be afraid to get help lest they lose their child. Of course these are only guesstimates of what I would think can happen because I dont' know of anyone or heard about anyone where this has happened. Although I've seen several senarios on television. The latest one being the Showtime series Dexter. Pretty morbid but interesting!

I don't think the parents did anything to make the situation better. They locked themselves in their room on Sundays to have sex all day. I suspect this was not only the time she molested her brothers but also the inspiration. The parents were abusive to each other. They lied and the parents didn't hide it from the kids. When I was talking with the youngest about the things I have automated at my home, I told him my caller ID was announced. His response was, "Then we will know when the bill collectors are calling." He was only seven.

Wow! This is what Raven was talking about! Parental influence and hiding!

Heres an example of the flaw in your logic:1) All homosexuals are sodomists (true)2) All sodomists are homosexuals (false)See? I'm sorry I dont' see Trudy. I see what you're saying from what you wrote, understand that Homosexuals are sodomists because of what they do, although it's not all that they do. I understand that not all sodomists are homosexual because heterosexual folks engage in anal sex. But I dont' see the reasoning of what that has to do with serial killers being abused etc. I'm just trying to understand your explanation.

Serenity, that quote you're responding to wasn't mine!

I read somewhere that ours is the only country that blames the parents when kids, that have had a good upbringing, turnout bad.

Tex makes a lot of good points. As did Raven. I still haven't found that link for Joyce's interview with a reporter. She gave him a few interviews, very rare for her. Lionel was the one that loved to talk to the press, wrote a book, didn't want Jeff's brain examined, fought in court to have it destroyed. Joyce wanted doctors to study the brain to see if they could learn anything about Jeff from it.

Joyce went on to become an aids activist and social worker in Fresno, Lionel retired, what creeps me out about Lionel is that he said once in an interview on A & E that he once had the same fascination as Jeff, with bones. That he had the same curiousity. 2 shrinks have said that Jeff's illness wasn't the result of anything the parents did or didn't do.

I hope she is getting the help she needs.

Nope. Even while we were working to correct her issues her parents were telling her that she didn't need to take her medication.

The parents took their children back after 10 months in our care. Honestly, I was ready for them to go. If I had known whet we were in for I would have had a very hard time making the decision to take them all in.

The girl took the 7th grade 3 times and was promoted because the school didn't want to keep her there any longer. She dropped out in the 8th grade under her mothers supervision. She will no doubt suffer for the mistakes of her mother and will probably be doomed to repeat her fate.

When I was young I ate as much as a whole box of frosted flakes, so in a way that made me a cereal killer.