Suspeckted

Join Date 02/2004

CARLESS TRAFFIC TICKET

On Friday July 28th Annie and I set out for a bike trip in which both our spirits and the temperature was near record high. (don't worry, the rest of the story won't go on like this) We were on the Paul Bunyan trail trying to explore other parts of the trail and towns we hadn't explored yet.
We were moving quite swiftly when we came to Nisswa but opted not to stop there as we had a fairly lengthy tourist-trap experience there about a month before. We then came to Pequot Lakes (about 15 miles from our starting point) and decided that we'd go up one more town and then come back to Peqout for lunch.

So we made it up to Jenkins to tack on another 6 mile round trip and headed back to find the lunch spot in Peqout (hey that rhymes) that my grandmother had recommended. We got back to Peqout and got off the trail to look for a spot to park our bikes. We rode down the main drag (if there is such a thing in that town) and I was looking for a nice shady spot to lock up. Finding nothing I stopped at the end of the "drag" and Annie said she saw a rack right by the restaurant we were looking for, a rack that, if I had seen earlier may have prevented what soon follows.

I take off a little ahead of Annie and arrive at a 4-way stop. I'm turning left to go back up the "drag" and a truck is approaching the 4-way appearing to want to go straight. I see that I will beat the truck to the 4-way so I signal my left turn and coast through the stop sign. Soon after I hear an unfamiliar honk behind me and looked back to see a squad car. Thinking that I was in the way I moved a bit over to the right and kept pedaling. Again the squad car honked at me in its very own special squad car way and I went over to the curb and stopped to see what was going on. "You don't think you need to obey traffic laws?" Are the first words that came out of one of the most stereotypical handlebar-mustache-wearing cops I've seen in a long time.
To which I say "Oh, the stop sign, well I was ahead of that truck so I figured I might as well go through." "Yeah, you blew right through it. You have an ID on you?" "Yes sir," I get out in somewhat disbelief as Annie graciously takes my bike from me to go lock it up at the rack. "Do you have a clean driving record within the last year?" "Yeah, my driving record has always been clean." "Well, if it's clean I can give you a county citation, if it's not I'll give you a state citation." "Ummm, okay," since he didn't explain to me what the difference was. So there I am standing curbside waiting in the 90 degree heat while Mr. Copstache takes his time sitting in his tax-payer-powered air-conditioned squad until we finally comes out with my license and a ticket for $60 for running a stop sign...on my bike.

"I could've given you a state citation for $127." I may have been polite, but I didn't thank him for his charity.

I decided I wanted to get this over with right away so since it was Friday afternoon I went to Pequot City Hall

The woman who took my money there looked a bit shocked when I told her what the ticket was for and responded "I didn't know you could get a ticket on your bicycle."

Well, I did know that, but I didn't know that the Pequot Police Department were so unforgiving as to charge cyclists $60 to run their stop signs. Note the date of the incident was very close to the end of the month so there may have been quotas to make up for.

Finally, I'm NOT endorsing any hate mail or anything like that, but if anyone would like to send an email to the kind officer thanking him for keeping the streets of Northern Minnesota safe then please feel free to contact him at his email posted online on the Pequot Lakes City Hall Website:

Rich Hogan, Officer

[email protected]

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I wish some cyclist around here got tickets, but I think yours was a bit excessive. A warning would have been more appropriate.

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wow sus, that stinks,.

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A warning would have been more appropriate.

Most definately I would think too! I don't blame you for thinking he needed to fill a quota, even if some may say he was only doing his job, Yes he was, but a warning for someone who had no record and riding a bicycle would have suffice, IMO.

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Well at the same time I got that ticket people were walking back and forth across the street. That's jaywalking isn't it? They didn't cross at the crosswalks or the stop light.

Thanks for reading gents.

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Well at the same time I got that ticket people were walking back and forth across the street. That's jaywalking isn't it?

Dontcha just hate the injustice of the justice system. In the sixth grade I was cited for running a stop sign on my bike, had to spend the next Saturday at the police station in a big auditorium watching a bicycle safety movie. Wasn't that bad. Some of my friends were there too. But I really think police officers should be out catching the real criminals. I hate the petty stuff they do.

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Great story; you tell it well.

Trinitie

p.s. It made me chuckle.....copstache.....

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Bicyclists ARE supposed to observe the rules of the road, suspeckted. The police officer was right in giving you the ticket.

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But I really think police officers should be out catching the real criminals. I hate the petty stuff they do.

Hold on, Angela. I'm going to have to take issue with this statement.

One of the biggest problems we have on the road is vehicle/bicycle accidents. While the majority of motor vehicle drivers in these accidents don't pay enough attention, some of the blame must be attributed to bicyclists rolling through stop signs.

The officer didn't take him to jail, he didn't issue the bigger state fine. He simply did his job. If I had done the same thing in a car and protested the ticket, would you assume I was wrong?

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Gideon, there's a BIG difference between running a stop sign in a 2-ton piece of machinery vs. a 30lb. bicycle. If I run a stop sign and hit a car who is going to be hurt.....me. If a car runs a stop sign and hits a bicyclist who is going to be hurt....the bicyclist. So there really is a difference in the amount of harm possible for each law-infraction.

Your defense to this may be "well, yeah, there is a difference and that's why you were given the smaller ticket." But really Gideon, why be so black and white about this? "He simply did his job?" No, he didn't. If he did, he would have ticketed every jaywalker who crossed the street away from the crosswalk while he had me pulled over, he would cite every motorcycle that rolls into down whose exhaust pipes are over the legal sound limit, and tag every car whose windows are tinted to dark. But cops ignore a lot of crimes because they don't think they're important enough to prosecute.

In addition...simply passing it off as "bicylists are supposed to observe the rules of the road" is not as simple as it sounds. Law Enforcement demands that you are treated like traffic and traffic treats you like you're always in the way and often make the situation dangerous for you.

I'm not arguing that I didn't break the law. But Gideon there are lesser and greater crimes correct? It's not like a sin is a sin and should all be treated equally. I mean come on, if I had been cited for smoking weed in town my ticket would've been under $60....how's that for justice?

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I'm not arguing that I didn't break the law. But Gideon there are lesser and greater crimes correct? It's not like a sin is a sin and should all be treated equally. I mean come on, if I had been cited for smoking weed in town my ticket would've been under $60....how's that for justice?

You're thinking as a citizen who has the "right" to ignore traffic signals, I'm thinking as a first responder who has to scrape your brains off the pavement when the truck also runs the 4 way and splatters you like so much roadkill.

Yes, it is true, motor vehicles don't treat bicycles with the respect they should. But that does not, and should not, negate YOUR responsibility.

What you did was commit a dangerous act in front of the officer. Had your bicycle slipped and the truck ran the four way, you would have ended up as I described earlier. Sure, the truck would have broken the law, but how much consolation would that be to your significant other?

The pot analogy is also absurd. So you are advocating for STRICTER laws against marijuana? The reason your ticket would have been less is because your town is one that rightly realizes that the only harm you are doing by smoking marijuana is to yourself, and thaat to legislate against that is silly.

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By the way, a $60 ticket is not much more than a parking ticket in some larger communities.

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Oh sweet Gideon, obviously you're not a cyclist. I think you'd understand more if you were. I never said I had a "right" to ignore traffic laws, I'm simply stating that officers do often choose which laws they enforce and which ones they don't, and I feel that in many circumstances ticketing a bike for a traffic offense does little to nothing for public safety. Had I seen a truck crusing towards the stop sign surely I wouldn't have ran it.

I appreciate you looking out for my safety Gideon, but I'm not going to feel bad about blowing through traffic signs. I should've pointed out that bikes in left turn lanes seldom trigger sensors so what are they supposed to do. Sit there all day until a car comes up behind them and triggers the turn arrow? That's absurd....even more absurd than my pot analogy. Which I wasn't pointing out as a reason to enforce stricter laws on marijuana, I was pointing out that something that's use of a federally prohibited substance carries a lesser offense....that just seems weird to me. But then again, a lot of laws seem weird to me. Why is attempted murder a lesser penalty than murder...."oh well, he wasn't able to completely kill that guy so let's get him back out on the street sooner to see if he can finish the job."

-Sus

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As a fellow cyclist I have to say that I agree with the cop on this one. Cyclists are supposed to obey the traffic signs the same as everyone else. Simply saying "I'm the one who'll get hurt" is not a valid argument for breaking the traffic laws.

Far too many cyclists are killed every year due to these sorts of things (as well as stupid car drivers who don't give us the respect we deserve on the road).

Yeah, he could have given you a warning, but he chose not to do so. That's his call since you did break the law.

In the community where I live a local cop saw a car pass way to close to me while I was riding where I was supposed to be riding. He pulled the jerk over and wrote him a ticket. I'm glad he did.

As for the traffic lights, no a bike won't normally trigger most lights. In that situation the law says you treat it as a stop sign, coming to a complete stop and then proceeding when it's clear to do so.

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I know more than one person who got a DUI while riding a bike.
If you had at least slowed down a bit, maybe you would have gotten the warning.

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Oh sweet Gideon, obviously you're not a cyclist.

Umm, not recently, no, but I've spent a hell of a lot more time cycling than you're aware of. If you're going to be that condescending towards me, I have nothing more to say to you, beyond asking how you "trigger" a 4 way stop sign (I've watched em, suspeckted, they don't even change for us cars!)

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I agree that cyclist should. Like I said, I almost ran one over that decided he was immune from the laws, and so was on my blind side. Perhaps a ticket is in order. But a Warning works too. Or maybe not.

I remember the cyclist that is alive today because on a dark 4 lane divided road, he was riding in the left lane, with no lights and I came up on his fast. And slammed on the brakes and the horn. He wound up in the divide and proceeded to curse me. And I was glad he could.

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Gideon, not trying to be condescending. I just think there's a very different view point coming from someone who relies on their bicycle to get them from A to B nearly everyday vs. someone who is just trying to look blankly at the law.

Geezer, I'm entertained that you go from DUI to the scenario I've presented...they are not related.

Mason, come on, can I infer that you're claiming that you always obey traffic laws on your bicycle to the same degree you do as when you're operating a motor vehicle? Most people I know do not...and what I'm arguing is is that although I did break a law, I don't feel I should be held to the same level of scrutiny while on a bicycle.

Unrelated to the law in question, I admit that the more I bike the more rivalry I feel towards motorists and traffic laws. I do own a car, but I frown upon myself to drive it places I could easily pedal to. I think anyone who bikes enough on the roads just trying to get to where they're going will eventually feel that way as well, feeling they need be more aggressive on the road...some go to far like the person Dr. Guy mentioned. There are asshole bikers who totally neglect the law and the safety of both motorists and other cyclists who give bikers a bad name flicking off cars who are doing just as they should, and then of course at least once a week or so I'll be doing exactly as I should on the road and receive a "get off the fucking road!" or my personal favorite "get a car!" See an old blog of mine "get a car bitch" for more info. on that one. http://margin2margin.joeuser.com/index.asp?AID=58395

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You mean those people on bicycles have a right to the road?

And all this time I thought it was a crazy government scheme to test my driving ability!

Rest assured though, I did my best to swerve and hit them every time. And if I missed my husband was always quick with the door.

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there's a BIG difference between running a stop sign in a 2-ton piece of machinery vs. a 30lb. bicycle. If I run a stop sign and hit a car who is going to be hurt.....me. If a car runs a stop sign and hits a bicyclist who is going to be hurt....the bicyclist. So there really is a difference in the amount of harm possible for each law-infraction.

Come on ... you really think you should be given a break because, although you broke the law, you drive a vehicle that is not capable of as much damage as other modes of transportation?

Aside from the fact that it is not the traffic cop's job to judge the severity of the infraction, nor the punishment, potential damage caused is not usually the prime consideration in policing traffic. Most of those type infractions are black and white; you either stop or you don't stop, you exceeded the speed limit or you didn't.

Granted, traffic cops do have leniency in deciding whether to issue a citation or a warning, but to claim you deserve a warning because of your mode of transportation is a bit off base, if not a tad elitist.
This may come across as a bit harsh but you seem to be of a mind that portrays bicyclists as not governed by the same rules of the road as everyone else.

Or more to the point, you don't feel bicyclists should be governed by the same rules of the road as everyone else.

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Mason, come on, can I infer that you're claiming that you always obey traffic laws on your bicycle to the same degree you do as when you're operating a motor vehicle? Most people I know do not...and what I'm arguing is is that although I did break a law, I don't feel I should be held to the same level of scrutiny while on a bicycle.

Yes, I do. When I'm home off the road my bent is my transportation and I do obey the traffic laws.

If you operate a vehicle of any kind on the roadways, you should be held to the laws that govern them.

The majority of road cyclists that I know, myself included, hold to vehicular cycling advocacy. This includes obeying traffic laws. We cyclists are constantly fighting the "keep off the road" mentality and going around ignoring the traffic laws does not help our case at all.

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Umm, I used my bicycle to get from A to B for MANY years. And in Tacoma, Washington, among other places.

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I did my best to swerve and hit them every time. And if I missed my husband was always quick with the door.

Oh Tova...your taillights will be a victim of swinging U-lock someday.

Aside from the fact that it is not the traffic cop's job to judge the severity of the infraction, nor the punishment, potential damage caused is not usually the prime consideration in policing traffic. Most of those type infractions are black and white; you either stop or you don't stop, you exceeded the speed limit or you didn't

No, most infractions call into question officer discretion as I pointed out with crimes like Jaywalking. Most people agree they shouldn't be ticketed for Jaywalking...and most people have done it, or do it regularly because they think it's not as relevant of a law to uphold as others.

Yes, I do. When I'm home off the road my bent is my transportation and I do obey the traffic laws.

Mason, no wonder you feel the way you do. You're a recumbent rider...that barely counts as you can only see one foot off the ground. Ha ha, just giving you a hard time homey, I'm just pointing to a recent article I read in bicycling magazine about recumbents. A letter to the editor said "I like my bike to say something about me. Just like driving a Volvo says 'I'm afraid of my wife,' a recumbent says 'I'm a dangerous overweight old man.'" I can't argue with how comfortable those things probably are though and how fast they go.

fighting the "keep off the road" mentality and going around ignoring the traffic laws does not help our case at all.

Agreed. It probably is doing more harm than good, and I agree that it's probably selfish of me to think I have a greater right than others on the road.

Umm, I used my bicycle to get from A to B for MANY years. And in Tacoma, Washington, among other places.

Gideon, you've always put forth good arguments on here and even when I don't agree with you I've found you to be among the most highly respected around here. Forgive my snappy judgments and unreasonable rationalizations. I'm just a bitter young man sometimes.

My just deserts will be: A) Another Ticket

Maimed by car running a sign or Most Likely C) Running into another cyclist who blew the stop sign....I have to admit, that would be tragically hilarious for all of you and myself...at least it would be for me as well after the pins were put in my leg and they put my spleen back in.

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Oh Tova...your taillights will be a victim of swinging U-lock someday

So I guess I shouldn't tell you what I call the bicycle path in suburbia? Ha.

Rural HOV LANE!! There is never any traffic on it!

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a recumbent says 'I'm a dangerous overweight old man.'"

Yep, that's the common rep from the roadies who can't keep up with us.

I can't argue with how comfortable those things probably are though and how fast they go.

Since I had three pounds of steel pins and screws installed in my pelvis comfort is very important to me. That's why I traded my road bike for a bent. And yep, they are fast.

Seriously though, it's every cyclist's responsiblity to observe the rules of the road while riding. It's the smart thing to do and helps all of us in the end. I believed this when I was riding a road bike and I believe this now.

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Rural HOV LANE!! There is never any traffic on it!

With the price of gasoline, that's really sad.

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