So you are saying that the crusades were concocted by a bunch of guys with nothing better to do than to slaughter muslims and jews?

And that the inquisition was just a wacky misunderstanding?

WOW. Ever hear of the Roman Catholic Church? Mother Church also looked the other way during the Holocaust if you desire a more recent example.

And i see that you are also dabbling in mind reading. Nice. It was the system that allowed Stalin to commit those atrocities. Please, stop the spin cycle ok?

In case you didn't know Baker, I'm an ordained minister.(non-practicing at the moment) I am aware of the atrocities commited in the name of christianity moreso than the next guy. I just don't stick my head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen.

I'm not saying that we should disregard religion. That's where you are wayyy off track here Baker.

All that i am saying is that folks like you act as if the history of christianity is unblemished. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. You say that it is the individual that is responsible for atrocities. OK, i can see your point to a certain extent. But when it comes down to it, the Holy See could have put a stop to it. Did they? Nope! they let the killing continue, and in fact, encouraged it to continue. All in the name of Christianity. The utter hypocricy of your statements is astounding. And quite disappointing i might add.

What you need to do is get off your moral high horse and do a little research. Open your mind to the possibility that just maybe...Just maybe the role of christianity in world history is at best "a chequered past". That doesn't mean that it always will be. I hope someday that all christians will realize that theirs is not a perfect religion. And no others are as well. Then and only then can christianity throw off the shackles of their bloody past.

But if you still insist in living in some perfect christian dreamland, that's your right.

Nope! they let the killing continue, and in fact, encouraged it to continue. All in the name of Christianity.

I hope everyone reading this blog understands that all of this killing that has been mentioned was not endorsed by Jesus Christ!

aeryck, I am really disapointed that no one has been reading your post on the Prince of Peace. The Love of Christ!

preacherman

Sorry preacherman. I guess Baker and i have developed a nasty habit of ripping each other a new one. I still like and respect his work though. We just don't agree much is all.

I started out as a ULC minister (not an internet one, i was actually ordained by a friend who has been with them since the 1960's) but i became involved with a local bible study group a few years ago. A bunch of free thinkers who arent afraid of ruffling a few feathers in my otherwise Mormon dominated home of Salt Lake City.

For the record, the big JC is ok with me. I just have problems with what some folks do in his name.

Ok, maybe baker is losing it a bit. YIKES dude. So all your education justifies acting like an idiot to prove your point?

Preacher is right...Calm down a bit!

Ok, no problemo. I was just hoping it wasn't our banter that got you mad.

Baker, Jesus did not teach his disciples hatred, killing or war, infact the opposite:-

'But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.'
[ just a few words from the big man ~ Matthew 5:44 - 48]

As you have correctly pointed out Christians commiting evil, does not mean Christ~ianity is evil. I agree but take it further mankind's repeated inhuman acts, proves that all mankind is evil, hateful and war loving. At the best we are a blood thirsty planet, and this includes you and me.

My thread, Adolph Hitler, Judge Dread, and the thought police" ~ the title is dedicated to you, but the content is actually quite fun, you should try it, tell us all how you would run this planet if you were the Boss.

Telling us of your achievements and insulting me for my lack, seems to reveal that your educated mind is still infected with what we are all suffering from; the sinful nature.

Great entries though, until you got into slagging me. What a waste, considering what you think about me.

The only reason I delete threads, is because I have no regard for human wisdom. When something gets all muddy and personal, I get bored, just like you have made this thread which was not about you, all about you. ~ Infact now you should look at the thread we are on, see yourself in the mirror of scripture
....."he who is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone."

Ouch, ouch, ouch, oucheeeee ouch ~ [repeat seventy times seven, and you are it.]

Goodbye Baker, you are a silly soldier, wage war in the name of Jesus as many have before, but disregard his teaching means you are not his follower. My final word to you is read this link and humble your proud heart.

"baker I know you do not argue with what the scripture above states, but what are you saying that you think God's word says about the issue?"

Huh? My whole point is about what God's word says about the issue, and I think I supported it pretty concisely. Aeryk is the one who bolts and runs when he is faced with the reality of war and capital punishment in the Bible.

You know it as well as I do, we've even talked about it here. I applaud you for your diplomacy, but it does seem like you are a bit more diplomatic with Aeryk re-interpreting the Bible than you are with others.

Aeryck says "Jesus did not teach his disciples hatred, killing or war," and cites:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48

and I return:

"The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3"

And then as usual Aeryck pouts. You can't deny the dozens of times God ordered war, so saying war is "wrong" is either blind or dishonest. He ignores those scriptures, and favors ones that he agrees with.

I don't mind you rejecting the parts of the Bible you obviously disagree with. I just hate it when you say that I and others who do the same thing "hate God".

Since you must think God was wrong when God commanded and even sent His angels to help in war, do you "hate God" aeryck?. How can you tell me to be perfect like God if you think God committed wrongs? Can someone command folks to go to war and still be perfect Aeryck?

Baker, The wrath of God was poured out upon Jesus. God's dealings with man are now directly through Jesus, if you are outside of Christ, you will still experience the Wrath of God, but in a way like a shower of hail, if you are under the roof it does not sting. I am really clear on this matter, but still think you have avoided the question very nicely. So one more time: 'Surely you don't think Christ promoted killing the unbelieving?'

I applaud you for your diplomacy, but it does seem like you are a bit more diplomatic with Aeryk re-interpreting the Bible than you are with others.

That is what a real friend does, he attempts to dispell the discord. I don't want to see any of us fight (with words) but one must consider the Word.

Aeryck says "Jesus did not teach his disciples hatred, killing or war," and cites:

aeryck may say this but that does not carry a lot of weight with me. What means a lot is that this is what the scriptures teach. Christ never taught His disciples to hate, even those that rejected their gospel.. just shake the dust off your feet.... not set off plastic explosives and destroy them all. Even when opposed by the Samaritan village (Luke 9:51-56) , and James and John questioned Christ if they should call down fire from heaven like Elijah and consume the unbelieving bunch, Christ rebuked them saying "ye know not what manner of spirit you are".

baker it is impossible for you to justify in scripture that Christ hated anyone, even those that hated Him. If you can find the scripture, I will be glad to consider, but to use the quote from Exodus 15:3- does not fit. It is out of context, especailly the mercy and grace of Christ.

You can't deny the dozens of times God ordered war, so saying war is "wrong" is either blind or dishonest. He ignores those scriptures, and favors ones that he agrees with.

Maybe a topic for another blog..... but why did God order destruction of entire nations, men, women and children? The reason God ordained such graphic destruction can only be found in His Word. Deut. 7: 1-5. Do as the believers in Berea, receive the scripture and search them. Come back and tell jU why God was so cruel and graphic?

Ok, no problemo. I was just hoping it wasn't our banter that got you mad

baker, your allowing a root of bitterness to overwhelm you. Even that oneguy sees it. Dont allow others on jU to fuel their hatred for aeryck. If you find where aeryck has said something that does not line up with scripture, you can tell him and he will search it ou. aeryck and I do not always agree, and you and I don't but I have no hatred for either one of you. In fact I love you both.

preacherman

Dodge, dodge, dodge. Do you or don't you think Capital punishment and war is wrong? Please, grow some guts and answer the question.

"Surely you don't think Christ promoted killing the unbelieving?'"

Jesus didn't promote tap dancing or greco roman wrestling, but that doesn't make them wrong. I don't believe we should ever kill anyone because of their beliefs. We have a God-given right to protect ourselves and our society. God doesn't give us freedom and families just so we can allow anyone who wants to murder and pillage at will.

I believe we have an obligation to do all we can for people, but Jesus did NOT void the responsiblity of protecting our families and our country. Jesus did NOT forbid war, and Jesus did NOT forbid capital punishment.

Now, please, yes or no will do. Do you believe that capital punishment and war are wrong?