Where do you get your statistics, by which you're basing your observation of a "very strong correlation"? The Focus on the Family "Institute"??

1) You have never been poor and most likely come from a middle class family, never really going without food or decent clothing. Certainly never having your utilities turned off or having to worry where your next meal would come from. Ever have shoes from Payless? Shopped at K-mart? It is doubtful. Of course you'll probably say you had it hard, even if your family is worth quite a bit. I know a millionaire who complains about how poor she is. 2.) Nuclear Family with a mommy and a daddy, daddy played football (baseball? Rugby? Lacrosse?) with you on weekends while mommy baked cookies and lived at home. She could afford to do this because Daddy is which? (Lawyer? Doctor? CEO? Military Officer?) 3.)You will never understand the plight of the poor. you can't! You have no point of reference of the pain of that existence or how hard it is to work out of it.

Interesting assumptions. I tend to agree with juxta in that charity is not the role of the government, and I DO come from a poor background. In fact, I am currently supporting my family of 7 on far less than the poverty line for a family of FOUR! I don't consider us "poor", nor do I allow my children to get caught in the mire of believing we are poor. I have a healthy family, a good house, adequate food (we're turning our house into a homestead), and everything a person could honestly need...WITHOUT begging the government for handouts.

We have a HUGE deficit, a massive national debt, and basically are on the fast track towards bankruptcy as a nation if we indulge every pet social project of every activist. Somewhere, we MUST draw the line, and rely on the PRIVATE sector to address these needs.

I think I can make some interesting observations about you from the tone of your post...

Yes, I'm from a middle class family and I have shopped at K-Mart and sometimes shop at Wal-Mart. Nor do I think I hd it hard. I had it extraordinarly easy. You do make a good point though. People like to think they're more poor than they really are,a nd that goes for non-millionaires too.

I'm also from a nuclear family, although it's not nearly as stereotypical as the example you describe.

I might not understand the plight of the poor, but my mother would, as she grew up poor, and even she agrees that some of these "poor misfortunate victims" need to take responsibility. Saying that I don't understand does not change the fact that people have options, and that responsibility is something for which to strive. It's not like they're children.

As far as what you have to say. The tone is all wrong and shows no compassion or real want to help this person or persuade them in any way. I am prochoice, I think it is in the best interest of someone who will ruin their life by starting a family too early to terminate that pregnancy. On the other hand, I have known many who have gone through with the said act only to regret it the rest of their days, as their situation improved faster than they anticipated.

I regret losing things too. Once I sold Final Fantasy III for the SNES (which is as valuable as a blob of cells that isn't even a human being), and later I wanted it again. However, just because I might regret not getting something doesn't mean that I'm going to write checks I'm not sure my ass can cash.

I come from a one parent home. My mother was never on welfare, worked hard for a living at an 11-7 shift as a nurse at a hospital 6 nights a week. We had nothing growing up while my rich father was busy stealing our inheritance and avoiding child support. I can tell you I have seen the point of view from both sides of the spectrum. The rich are blind, selfish, narcisisstic, and quite honestly evil. They usually claim to be good christians too. If you think you are a good christian, have a look at what Jesus had to say about charity.

I like how you stereotype the rich. Seems like you're doing the same thing I'm doing (except I wasn't stereotyping all the poor people, I was focusing on a very specific group of people who like to play the victim when they had so many options), especially since you didn't grow up rich. That means you can't understand the wealthy.

Of course why do I bother, you have eyes, yet cannot see the truth when it is staring back at you. There is something terribly wrong in this world. When you meet Jesus at the pearly gates and he tells you he does not know you. Then you'll understand.

So, you're condemning me to Hell, eh? You know what He said about doing that, right?

Juxt, please accept my apologies on my post. I didn't get it. A careful read of your words,your reply, and the commentary by gideon show me I actually am in line with the point you are trying to make more than I really want to admit. The welfare system is broken and there is a problem. Social Security, same thing, its just a BAD system and needs to be done away with.

Sorry man, I didn't get it.But I do now.

Reply By: Dr. Guy Posted: Friday, February 11, 2005 Working in Social services now (networks), I have seen many that did.

I know social workers who look so far down on those who apply that they assume everyone comes from the same cut.

Even now, one of them said that 'you know they aren't going to the job fair' (if we want, we can ask to go to places to check them out). These are the 'rose eyed glasses' she looks through.

The bottom line is that there ARE some who fit just what is said in this post, but most DO NOT and infact hate being, on, around, or in the program. That includeds myself. There are those who just "talk the talk" to make themselves feel better. For example, "all I have to do is this and I am good to go". Are you speaking to those who talk like this, Dr Guy? Most of it is lip service. It is a pretense to make themselves feel good about what is going on in there lives.

Oh and that 2 out of 20 was just a reference, its not an actual statistic. I am just saying out of those who do it for the money and just to be lazy, most do not and REALY do not like being on the program at all.

It is those very few who truely mess it up for those who want legitimate help. Even now at Goodwill (wo helps people on Public Assistance to get work before they are completely on welfare) had to change the rule for how to help people by insuring that those in the program actually go to job fairs, attend classes and use metrocards



That mother depected in this post is actally a person who could be real and can be found in public assistance programs, but they not only do not represent all of us, they mess it up for THEMSELVES and US. The program could be better but the welfare reform that took place has done some good. Its more job oriented, more self reliance focused. There are those who talk trash and wish it was the old way, but actually feel good to have a chance at a real job with a real chance of raises and self importance.

Remember, there is only so much room at the top, then there is the middle, and then there is the bottom. Until we have a system where everyone truely can do something about there lives, most people will be poor no matter HOW HARD THEY WORK. The capitalist system is, so far, the best but it must allow people to advance in pay, lifestyle and more when they put in the work to do it. It is not always the case that it is that, but it should be. One day, when you call someone a bum, it will be because they just didn't work hard at all. We all have to admit that this system as it stands, while the best, makes it so that someone HAS TO BE on the bottom and it has to be MOST of the population.

If the welfare programs (now called Public Assistance), adobtion system, and EDUCATION SYSTEM can be reformed such that everyone gets a chance, then you dipiction of what a welfare mother will be more true than you think.

This is a crude stereo-type but..

In my daily experiences I can usually tell if someone is a Democrat or a Republican (or at least tend sto vote that way) based on a basic personality trait:

Democrats tend (not always) to blame others for the bad things that happen to them.

Republicans (not always) tend to blame themselves for the bad thigns that happen to them.

This is a crude stereo-type but..

yes it was...in my experiences I've found that Democrats tend (not always) to blame Republicans for the bad things and the Republicans tend (not always) to blame the Democrats.

Oh really? For that matter, the DEATH PENALTY is only advocated by those who themselves have never been EXECUTED. Just like Reagan, you ain't pro-life - you're only pro-birth, and after that you don't give a damn.