Undeniable truths:

The sky is blue.

A bear craps in the woods.

obama is a big fat liar. 

lie link

Bonehead, you crack me up!

Loca,

if this is the case then you certainly cannot support the democrats here either.  The main reason all these hoops are there is due to the Dems.  It is also extremely expensive and continues to get extremely expensive.  The rates for all the different visas and applications have as much doubled in many cases just July 2009.  I know this because my wife is currently going through the process and July 2009 was when she got her green card (aka perm residency card). 

I know the process too well. 

Congrats!  Yeah looks like you were post July 2009.  The thing that sucks for us is that we have to drive about 4 hours each way for the bios (Albuquerque being the closest) and then for our interviews we'd have to drive to North side Denver (over 6 hrs away).

Slap in the face?  That's too nice. 

I had an interesting conversation with a gentleman in Phoenix while I was down there in May about this law.  It was interesting to see him try to convince me that a 'fine' for their amnesty would some how equate to the years and money/time spent doing it lawfully.  I have several friends that had to send their spouses up to Canada for several months while they went through the process because they couldn't have their physicals done here in the US for some reason. 

Let's see, my wife (and yours NC) are required BY LAW to carry their immigration papers (ie green card) with them at all times.  I remember reading that specifically.  I cannot understand how people think that asking them to ACTUALLY carry it so when an officer asks them for it is profiling?  If they obey the law there's a funny thing.... the police don't harass you!

Back off Doc, she's with me.

Thanks. I've been through this once before. My last wife was British (and lives there now). so this is the second time (last). And for those that say "buy American" my first wife was, had to return her for a defect, she spent constantly beyond her (and my) means. I do hope this is the last (it is finally after all these years), I just have the Africa, South America, and Australia (been tempted here before in my younger days too) continents left.

My wife did all her interviews in China. It was an over-night train ride for her to Guangzhou each time she had to go. That was a pain. We were married for over a year and a half before she could come to the US. The funny thing is in August she will be returning to work in China (she is an English language professor there for the last 30 years) so she can retire at 56 with a pension. Her college has been paying her since she's been in the US, in hopes that she would return. So she will be flying back and forth to keep US resident status current. China is my SHTF scenario. If it gets bad here, we have a home there and can live comfortably off our pensions and savings.

You are correct, but we ignore this law because in Virgina you can't get a drivers license without a green card (or citizenship) and social security number, she also has her military dependents ID card, she carries both of these at all times and they are easier to replace if lost. My step daughter recently visited us for four months. She carried around her Chinese passport/US visa as required, mostly because she would get carded when having a drink when we dined out (24 looks like 16). But I'm a firm believer one should be able to produce some form of ID that proves their status. Lawful resident or citizen is irrelevant as long as it is one or the other.

For the sake of argument, we give every illegal the chance to become citizens by July 4, 2011 with appropriate fines etc.  Then what?  On July 5, 2011 more illegals pour into the country.  How do we verify who is who?

Giving illegals citizenship doesn't solve the problem at all and has nothing to do with the illegal immigration problem.  In fact, I imagine a significant portion of the Mexicans coming here to work, don't actually want to be Americans.  They just want to feed their families back in Mexico.

As the population in this country increases, individual liberty will decrease.  There is just no getting around it (like in big cities where just about everything is dictated or regulated by the gov from where you can place trash on the sidewalk to curfews for minors..and imo is one of the biggest reasons big cities tend to vote Dem even in Rep states).

When it happens incrementally through childbirth and controlled immigration, Americans have time to adjust, have their say, fight, ignore it, ultimately to use our American political system to address the issue. 

The problem with illegal immigration is that the very act is ANTI-American.  (I don't really care about immigration 100 years ago and earlier.  It looked a lot different in a country that still had states with less than 100,000 people.  You can't compare then with now and actually expect people to credibly listen to your argument.)

An influx of illegals does not lead to incremental changes.  It leads to dramatic shifts in culture of which the majority have no say, no time to adjust, fight, ignore, whatever.  That is why it is Anti-American. 

But I do believe we have the ingenuity to find an innovative solution to illegal immigration that will meet America's expectation of having a say, and navigating our own future.

Asking for ID is Arizona's way of policing their borders.  It does not provide a solution to illegal immigration.

Giving citizenship to illegals is one way to reduce the "illegal numbers" now, but it also is not a solution to illegal immigration. 

The question in my mind is:  "How do we control the influx of immigrants into this country?"

I have my own ideas, but am afraid they are just built upon what I've seen and is already done, and done successfully, on US military bases in other countries around the world.  Walls and guns.  But I do believe we can be more creative.

Once we come up with a way to control illegal immigration through the American way of fighting, having a say, ignoring it, then we can deal with the illegals already here, and any profiling issues.

I don't have to say anything, Tova7 just said all.

Did you know the boarder patrol rounded up 500 invaders in one day on Robert Krentz's ranch? He was a man who would bring food and water to trespassers if they needed it and they shot him down. "the boarder is safer now than ever"

Tova's right. Becoming a citizen (or a legal resident) is a statement by that person to agree to the laws and customs of the USA. You can't give it, a person needs to willingly want and except it. The whole thing flies in the face of legal immigration. Will the first requirement now be to "break the law" and get your reward? It makes me sick.

The idea is to come for the US culture and opportunity, not to bring a carbon copy of the place you left behind. If it's that great back there why are they leaving in the first place? Why not clean up your homeland and make it a better place instead of coming to your "new" home and demanding concessions.

So, first you ask "how could it work without profiling", then you answer your own question by giving the super obvious way... have officers check the documents of whomever they arrest. Which is exactly what the bill calls for. Anyone who gets arrested for breaking the law gets checked for documentation. No racial profiling. As long as you can avoid breaking any laws then they will never catch you.

The idea here is that instead of a long legal battle, a short stint in prison, and then back to the street, they simply ship them back to mexico.

Question, anyone has a link to the bill?

What you THINK is true is not important. What IS true is what matters. The boarder patrol may be doing a good job but the boarder is not secure. It won't be secure without a wall. And we are not talking about immigrants we are talking about illegal invaders.

I don't support the democrats.  There is no political party for me.  That would be a reasonable party  that works for solutions instead of just trying to perpetuate their own agendas.