Bahu Virupaksha

Join Date 09/2004

WAS OBAMA TOO REVERENTIAL TO THE EMPEROR

The long bow

When the American constitution was being debated and faught over, there was only one point on which there was consensus across the board: no royalty, no highness and no titles of nobility. I think the US for all its not so pleasant attributes has lived up admirably to the ideals of a truly republican constitution. In the US there is no real taste for high sounding titles. Even the most powerful president is addressed asm Mr Presisident and there are no apparent distinguishing marks of distinction by birth. There are political dynasties, great wealthy families and so on, but the spirit of an egalitarian, republican constitution lives on, and as I have said with some real blemishes.

The US President Mr Barack Obama, I am afraid has dented this proud legacy by being unduly reverential to the Emperor of Japan. There was no need for his to take such a low bow almost touching the floor. Well if protocaol so demanded he could have, as did his Secretary of State, take just a mild slant rather than a 160 degree bow. He is representing a republican nation and such nations cannot give even the slightewst concession to Royalty. In this day and age royalty is as obolete as the three orders of feudal Europe (REad George Duby (The Three Orders). To say the least I was greatly disappointed. And as the first Black President, he must have been conscious of the fact that the Japanese still remain a racist people will strongly entrenched racism.

I think the Protocol Department of the US Government must take a FRESH LOOK at the whole issue and Copngress must issue guidelines reminding the politicians that US is a republic first and then a democracy.

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I'm kinda surprised to see you point this out. I expected this issue to be yet another "this is just picking on Obama again" argument. But I have noticed quite a few people actually feels Obama really messed up this time. Guess his lack of experience is showing big time lately. Too bad so many are still blinded by their belief that he is God-like.

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"Bite the tongue that speaks of greatness, because it is often possessed by prideful fools."

God forbid we be egalitarian and respectful in our diplomacy. You know, I think we really need to get past our pride on this issue. Apparently, we're all supposed to give the finger to royalty. Yeah, smart.

Cultural context is everything. It's customary to bow in Japan, emperor or not. Fact, end of story.

You wanna go around doing your thing, being arrogant, prideful, and pissing people off to the point where they won't work with us? Be my guest, but get the fuck outta my country cause that would screw it over. God forbid we respect culture, tradition and customs.

Sorry, to be honest, this all comes off as people picking at this just cause it's Obama. Lets face it, if Obama had not bowed...we all know people like O' Reilly, Hannnity, Malkin, et al. would be shitting themselves with anger and excitement because Obama (still) fucked up. Damn near none of what he does is right. Very few people are seeing things in the cultural context that this should be looked at. Same shit as with Bush and holding hands with the Saudi king (cultuarl context: solidarity, friendship. look it up).

Get over it, there are bigger fish to fry, like vomiting over Palin's oh so not folksy and down to earth celeb status.

Sarcasm aside, lets move on folks. Btw, I do concede that Obama botched the bow though, given the angle and such.

~AJ

PS - My understanding/knowledge comes from prior knowledge, double checking with the 4 or 5 Japanese dormmates living in the same wing, a grandmother and aunt who are Japanese, and consulting/double checking for veracity's sake with two of the WLAs visiting Japanese language and culture experts.

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Bahu I think some of your Democrat and Independent readers would take issue with you refering to Obama as "representing a republican nation" and a "republican constitution". The country is a Republic,as you state in your last paragraph, but the context you used the terms would seem out of place, but I understand what you mean and agree with the spirit of your article.

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Get over it, there are bigger fish to fry, like vomiting over Palin's oh so not folksy and down to earth celeb status.

Yeah its more fun to tear into a private citizen, that the fool one might have voted for, that would look like incompetents... on the part of the voter. And nobody want to admit their own responsibility, and embarrassment in the latest display of subservience to everyone in the world except the American people. I especially like the speech to the Chinese to open up to criticism via the Internet. It was promptly censored by the Chinese government. Nice touch Obama. You give new meaning to under-qualified.

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The fact of the matter is, yes, it is customary in Japan to bow, however, the bow Prs. Obama extended to the emporer was actually a violation of the custom. It isn't just a matter of bowing, it is how people bow to each other. Equals bow at equal degrees. In the case where two people of different social standings greet, the person in the lower standing bows deeper than the superior one. The lowlier the person is to the superior, the deeper the bow. When Prs. Obama bowed, it was NOT the bow of equal heads of state.

It is important for presidents to show respect to the heads of state of other nations, however, it is equally important for him to know the difference between respect and grovelling.

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It is important for presidents to show respect to the heads of state of other nations, however, it is equally important for him to know the difference between respect and grovelling.

1. "I do concede that Obama botched the bow though, given the angle and such."

2. I think you're reading way to much into it; It comes off as damn near anal. You know the funny thing is that many Japanese have said it was fine, that it wasn't great, but it was of equal standing. Are you japanese?

~AJ

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Yeah Ted, please the Japanese, screw what Americans think.

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Some reports say that the Japanese people were fine with it, other reports say that the Japanese people were embarrassed by it... conclusion.. the Japanese people aren't a monolith and can speak for themselves. The point isn't what anyone thinks, Obama botched yet another opportunity to appear presidential.

We'll just add this to the list... for a guy who hasn't even been in office a year, he sure has a long list.

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It is important for presidents to show respect to the heads of state of other nations, however, it is equally important for him to know the difference between respect and grovelling.

. I especially like the speech to the Chinese to open up to criticism via the Internet

Guess his lack of experience is showing big time lately

I do not think it is lack of experience: rather it is the style that is to be blamed.

There is a very thin line between govelling and respect as faR AS PROTOCOL IS CONCERNED. I think one US president was even knightwd by the queen and he (was it Reagan?) did not even curtsy.

Obama's Asian trip has achieved virtually nothing for the USA.

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I do not think it is lack of experience: rather it is the style that is to be blamed.

I was giving the man an out (see I don't hate him personally), the benefit of the doubt, if you will. If it's his style (he's doing it intentionally) that is much worse IMO. I've never cared much for people that give out platitudes with little substance backing it up. While many Americans and Europeans eat it up like candy, Asians tend to be more pragmatic and see right through this charade.

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