Firstfruit can be used in a variety of ways.  it's basically just giving God back the first of whatever he gives us.  Christ was called a firstfruit because he was the first one to raise from the dead and it promises that there will be more to follow.  That's what giving is all about.  We give God our firstfruit and he promises us there will be more to follow.  We will be blessed.  Israel in the OT was blessed when they continued in this vein.  When they got away from giving to God, they found themselves on their own and realized too late they had no blessing upon them like they did back in the day when they were obedient. 

it's a heart issue regardless.    We give or not give according to what's going on in our hearts.  It's been said you can tell alot about a person in just two ways.....what they spend their money on and what they have on their bookshelf.   "where your treasure is, there is your heart also." 

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was speaking in general terms, not you specifically.  When you were speaking or advocating not giving but give to yourself first I was saying you were speaking of having a "tight fist" meaning in a general way.  I have no idea what you do personally nor do I need to know.   So I really have no idea what you do. 

Absolutely.  I agree and was the first one to bring this up.  So we agree on this. 

While I do believe God blesses those and honors those who honor him that's not what I'm talking about here.  I've heard many testimonies from others even right here on JU by those who gave and were surpised at how it blessed them.  I heard quite a story yesterday from a friend here in my neighborhood when we discussed this issue. 

and nobody is accusing anybody of anything.  We are just having a discussion here.  You are taking this way too personal. 

agree, nor should you.  It's always been between you and God anyway. 

If I remember correctly, miss Whip, you publicly announced you would pay everyone back or forward it on to a charity or whatever.  My thought at the time was, "I'm going to need money because now my wife is pregnant.  Is this God providing?" So I said, since you OFFERED, yes, I'll have it back please whenever you're able to.

Now, sometime later, I was approached to help someone else in need on this board.  So I said to myself, "I would love to help, but I don't really have any money... hey, what about that money LW was going to pay back?  It would be much better to send it on to a person who needs it more than me!"  So I approached you to send it on, PER YOUR ORIGINAL OFFER, with no more expectation of ever seeing that money again, just like I had when I gave it to you, until you offered.

By the way, you can forward that money on with no problem (send it anonymously if you want, so I have no claim to it) as God has already fulfilled your challenge.  In fact, fulfilled it just after I told you to send the money along.  In fact, fulfilled it without ME asking Him to do so, and in the exact amount.  God always provides, for everyone.

You're right though - I am selfish.  I wanted my money back instead of just saying send it along.  I had great things planned to do with that money.  Buy stuff, for myself, because I wanted them.  It wasn't going to be used to help anybody, even my own family.  And that, LW, is why I'm so glad that you hadn't given it back yet, thank God.  Because now it can go to good instead. 

What does any of this have to do with tithing though?

Really? I thought we were discussing this because FS stated that she's no longer at a particular church because they made her feel bad about not tithing.  Maybe you were reading a different blog?

Amen!

AD, so true!

Ted, thanks for your explanation, I think that is great, to show/teach your kids by doing!  I try to do the same!   A wonderful example you are!

Whip, thanks for reminding me about that Micro lending program!  I will keep my eye on it for a moment when I can be of help.  Come to think of it, I micro manage everyday, or every other week, with one family or another!LOL!  I look for nothing back because I know they can't give back at the moment and I'm only too happy to help as I can anyway.

Shades, I see your points and I agree that giving should not be done with the expectations to receive.

Jythier, ooooh, you made Whip mad!

KFC, I do agree that a family should give what they can afford, even if it is less than 10%, and even though for some 10% is not a lot, but it is still too much by some others. [and I'm not judging, I'm just stating an opinion] as Ted says, it IS a significant amount!

No, I'm discussing tithing in a thread about tithing and keeping to the subject.  So of course it sounds like all I'm talking about is tithing in regards to the church.  It is all I'm talking about!  But that's not what the church is for.

All members of a church that states they expect a tithe need to be held acocuntable, as when you sign up you know what's expected and what they believe.  If you don't believe in tithing, that's probably not the church for you anyway.  If it is, you should discuss it with the pastor before joining.  Note that I'm not saying anything about ATTENDING a church, just being a member.

This thread is focused on money.  The church isn't.  Please remember that throughout this discussion.  If the church is focused on money, it's probably a bad idea to go there anyway.

If all my church believed was that you had to give them 10% of your income it would be pretty silly, you know?

Apology accepted.

Anyway, you don't sign up to Columbia House and then say, "Wait, I didn't know I had to buy all this stuff!"  They tell you before you sign up.  Churches should tell members what's expected of them, and they should require it.  I'm not saying that if you miss one week all hell should be set loose upon you and your next seven generations.

I also would have much rather discussed this privately, but I understand what you're doing and why, and who you think you're protecting from me and my twisted sense of right and wrong.

The thing is, you don't need to!  Because either she feels convicted and should have been tithing anyway, or she knows I'm wrong and won't care two squirts of owl shit what I have to say on the matter.  Either way, I know what happens in my life when I tithe vs. when I don't, and that's proof enough to me.

As for my loans and charity, yeah, I know that giving to you ceased to be charity.  But I didn't lie about why I wanted it returned.  I had just found out we were pregnant again and was freaking out.  I freak out a lot.  Anyway, you know the rest of the story.  I ask for it back, I calm down, the wheels of selfishness start turning... and here I am.  A sinner, just like everybody else.

Used by God.

You challenged Him to pay me back directly.  He has done so, so aren't we square?

Sorry, I forgot this was a private matter.  "Yet" was not in any way shape or form trying to make it sound like you should have already paid me back.  I understand the timetable you had presented, and didn't expect anything any time soon.  Apologies to you if the community here thought that that was what I was trying to say.