I'll second that "he fell down the stairs Your Honor, I didnt push him ...." - Like Hell I didnt

I agree with your thoughts though, there is going too far, and that should not happen.

Regards
Zy

Very good point... Had not thought much about the secound thought there!

No one should be jailed for drug use. Ever!!!

I believe that we need to be a litte more serious about our crimes. Drug users should be FORCED to go to rehab by the government, otherwise they will never go to it. Same with mental patients. For cases like first degree murder it should be an eye for an eye. We need to learn that human life has value, not just useless things to be discarded at your own will. Child molesters need to be taught the same lesson in values. If we don't raise punishments, then the problem will never be solved because some people simpy don't care. Ronald Regan believed in peace by strenth, and that is the way it needs to be! If not, criminals will simply disregard the justice system and continue to do what they do once let out of prison. People who deal drugs should be the ones being shot down, not the addicts. Dealing drugs is the same as dealing death. Also, the government should privately supply weed to addicts to stop the freakin' problem, because if it is found at Wal-Mart, the problem will increase. These are just my views on the problem.

It's a hallucinogen, it deteriorates motor skills, it generally has very negative effects on the mind, and can exacerbate the symptoms of many mental disorders.

It contains 20 times more ammonia, and contains five times as much hydrogen cyanide and nitrous oxides as tobacco, and contains about as many carcinogens. The effects of second hand smoke from Cannabis are totally unknown, and indeed the effects of smoking it in general are not well studied. Studies from the USA and Sweden are in conflict, with the US study claiming no direct deaths from smoking it, while the Swedish study claims increased risk of violent deaths.

Indeed, while studies show the risk of cancer deaths is not higher than tobacco deaths, they still show the risk is much higher than people who do not smoke at all. In particular, bullous lung disease, which is normally uncommon, is found in many Cannabis smokers. Habitual inhalation of any form of smoke is unhealthy.



Keep in mind not everybody wants even cigarettes to be legal. Already it is forbidden in many places, and I personally hate inhaling second hand smoke in any form. I made the personal decision to not smoke, and that includes avoiding second hand smoke. The mind altering effects of Cannabis make it even worse IMHO, and I really hate the idea that second hand smoke may mess with my mind. I did not give anybody permission to mess with my mind.

I'm sorry, this is a far cry from the laughable "no reason" argument you have presented. I believe there are plenty of reasons.

I agree in principle with forced treatment for addicts/mentally ill. For the addicts, I think it could be potentially possible by setting up an addict specific jail with the primary goal of treatment.

The problem with that is that the treatment would be ineffective. Being treated for an addiction means learning to live your normal life with out the drug. Treatment in a jail, no matter how well done, cannot substiute for "normal life". Also once released, the support systems in the jail are no longer there (a clean enviroment, counselors 24/7, etc), causing te addict to look toward thier original support system - the drug. Ex. If our addict lives w/ mom and mom is also a drug addict, how likely do you think it will be for our addict to relapse?

The mentally ill provide a totally different challange. While you can get an addict into jail/treatment when they commit a crime, what do you do with the mentally ill that has not committed a crime? We have no authority, except in exceptional circumstances to take custody of the person (ie constrain their rights). How many people here have ADD/adhd, Depression, or Anxiety? Those are mental illnesses. Should I, by virtue of the existance of the illnesss in you, be allowed to force you into a hospital? I think not.

Personally, atleast concerning drug use, I feel that very strong anti-drug education (for both parents and children) would be the best bet. It is not, nor will it ever be a silver bullet, but prevention is easier and more cost effective than rehabilitation.



Well look at it this way. The pure Existance of the Drug, what ever it may be, is not the problem. What is the problem is the combination of the power/appeal of the drug along with the actions associated with the drug.

Those who are addicted will commit crimes, serious crimes, violent and non-violent to obtain the means to get more drugs. There are countless cases of Thefts, BE's, GTA's, all the way up to murder for little more than one dose. This doesn't even cover the crimes committed by those who are under teh influence of drugs (loss of inhibition - rage, etc)

Those who deal will also commit crimes, serious crimes. Got a rival dealer? Beat him up, kill him, steal his dope. Got someone who can't won't pay? Beat 'em up, rape thier significant other, break into thier home and terrorize it.



As a civillian, If you kill anyone, for any reason, you've murdered them. It is that simple. Now there are affirmative defenses (the most famous being self defense), but again, that's a defense to a criminal charge. That's the way the justice system works. If det/pros determine it was, say self defense, then the chares are dropped, if not, the process continues.



Its actually required for our justice system to work, like it or not. Here's why. Taking an offender to trial is a long and arduous task. It takes months and is a large strain on resources, both financially and in manpower. Depending on your court and state, you could go before a judge 7+ times before getting to a trial. By pleading guilty, the offender waives his rights to trial, etc, saving a huge amount of strain and time on the system. They are still required to pay fines and court costs (that's where they get the offender many times), in addition to serving some type of sentence.



No such thing. I'm serious. They are called Miranda Warnings. It appears to be semantics, but the difference is very important. The Miranda decision by the SC, did not establish or alter any rights what so ever. It mearly mandated that we provide arrestees with warnings regarding thier already established consitutional rights. Its procedural and is a failsafe. Here's why:

You see, any waiver of a right (confession, consent to search, etc), must be made knowingly and intelligently. Hence you must know what rights you have if you are going to waive them and you must know that you are waiving them if you are going to waive them.

Not everyone in the US fully knows or understands thier rights and requirements when dealing with the Justice system and the police. You'd be surprised how few do. By telling them their rights and asking if they understand them, we ensure that the offender knows what rights they have and he/she cannot claim to have waived a right unknowingly or unintelligently. This allows Law enforcement to secure evidence lawfully while maintaining the integrity of the due process afforded to the offender.

What many people forget, i notice is that kids think it's "cool" to do drugs. I remember a commercial where a fictional drug dealer was complaining that all of the kids were getting addicted on their parent's perscriptions. Perscriptions are legal. Perscriptions can still be bad. If we start selling weed in wal-greens, then all of the kids will buy it! The government can't legalize pot because all of our children will be addicted to weed, and come time they are defending our country, they will be high! Whatever backwashed country it is bill beat the living $#!t out of our troops and we the people will be enslaved/cannibalized. Legalizing weed isn't the way, but giving it to people for use in an institution would probably be the only way to do it. If we legalize weed, we will all lead horrible lives or die in the same manner.

Then it seems to me that your education system is failing these people.

My personal believe is that there needs to be a radical shift in the way we deal with crime in North America. You are right that a very large percentage of crime is drug and or gang or poverty related. My solution is simple we need to start giving proper treatment and education in our prisons. We also need to stop sentencing people for lengths of time, but rather we should sentence them to complete certain tasks.

For example a heroin addict is convicted of armed robbery to support his drug habit. Lets say our addict never completed school and is illiterate. Instead of being released after say 5-10 years regardless of whether he can be incorporated into society, he should only be released once he has satisfied certain conditions. For example

1)He seeks out and completes an addiction treatment program. (Obviously there would need to be a support mechanism in place to prevent relapse upon release.

2)He seeks out and completes sufficient education/training to allow him to secure good employment. I also suggest that programs be in place providing employment for released convicts.

3)Completion of a program detailing the effects of crime on individuals and society.

Now if our addict chooses not to meet any of these conditions he does get out. Ever. Period. We have a standard of conduct in our society and if we provide him the tools and he chooses not to try we have no use for him. By the same token if he does complete his program and then goes on to continue commiting crime then again he goes back in and does not get out. Ever.

I feel this is a fair system, as the reasons for the crime are adressed.

I have dyslexia and I learned to read very well, but I do have problems with spelling though. The key to fixing dyslexia is to get to the problem early on or it will just get worse. And because this is prison people will have some trouble but enough hard work and the problem could be solved. Dyslexia is more of a diffrent way of thinking than a problem. Dyslexics are even though to be more creative then regular people because entrepreneurs are found to be five times as likley to have dyslixia so this might be a improvment for priosners with dyslexia because they can use their creativity to help themselves. For more info on Dyslexia here is a link on Wikipedia. WWW Link

Yes the US needs to reform the prisons and i have a simple solution its called the death penalty. The reason people commit crime is they are not afraid of the punishment. I read earlyer of the 3 strikes law. Texas has one when it comes to molesters. The third strike for that one is the death penalty, however i dont think it should be that severe for petty crimes but they should understand that crime will cost alot.

Denyasis, your next response might cause me to die of laughter, you murderer!

Do you really believe all that shit you posted about weed? Cobra at least posted real, if irrelevant information.

I'm not a stoner, I've never used alcohol, smoked cigarettes or done drugs of any kind. I have educated myself on the subjects though, your post reads worse than the modern bullshit does. Shit that absurd hasn't been said about weed since the sixties propaganda movies were made that showed people becoming satanists and murdering each other because of drugs and dying from too much sex.

Marijuana is a mild narcotic, it slows the brain down and duplicates the effects of aging. With long term heavy use, permanent effects akin to old age set in, deficient memory, sluggish reflexes. It's also a fucking outstanding painkiller, excellent for terminally ill cancer patients, severe cases of RA, etcetera etcetera. Stoned people don't give a shit, that's really about it. They don't kill people for joints, it's not any more addictive than caffeine is. Yes, sodas will drive you to kill someone for a fix before marijuana will.

It's bullshit, utter bullshit. The rest of your views on the evils of marijuana are a product of it being illegal. If it were found in supermarkets with the cigarettes, there would be no dealers, there would be no problems associated with dealer, there would be no gang wars over turf for it.

Personally, the shit smells worse than sewage and gives me a fucking migraine anytime I end up near some dipshit that exhales facing the wind. Of course, cigarettes aren't much different.

"As a civillian, If you kill anyone, for any reason, you've murdered them. It is that simple. Now there are affirmative defenses (the most famous being self defense), but again, that's a defense to a criminal charge. That's the way the justice system works. If det/pros determine it was, say self defense, then the chares are dropped, if not, the process continues."

Not even most liberal wackjobs consider self defense killings murder. You do know that murder and kill are two separate words with distinct meanings yes? Did you post drunk or something? If this is a language barrier problem, please say so. If for nothing else, the sake of my sanity.

The rest of your post is less irritating. It's nice that you know we have no actual Miranda right, but your logic on why is astounding. You seem to think ignorance should be excused. If I murder you, can I simply claim I didn't know I wasn't supposed to? After all, if you don't inform me, how am I expected to know? There is no requirement that they be waved. You have the right to counsel, not the right to have the police treat you like an invalid unless you expressly deny your right to counsel. Anyone that doesn't know their rights doesn't know the rights of the people around them, if anything not knowing is further indication that they belong in prison.

Plea deals... Wrong, wrong, wrong. Either do it right, or don't do it at all. Plea deals create crime. Learn history, the softer and more manipulative a system becomes, the more it is taxed. Reducing the burden on the judicial system by letting people off hasn't worked in this country, and it hasn't worked in any of the others either. Do you think that despite vastly superior methods of solving them, we have a higher crime rate than we did 50 years ago for no reason? The judicial system is perpetuating it. The prison population has quadrupled in the last fourty years, the violent crime rates at the peak of the idiocy in the ninties were over four times as high as they were in the sixties. Murder was relatively uncommon, only about twice as high. California, with a huge minority population, high poverty rates and substantial gang problems actually has one of the lower crime rates these days. Remember that three strikes law?

Oh my GOD! We'll be swamped! Oh, hey, where'd the crime rate go? Shit man, I could get life for stealing that lady's purse, fuck it, I'm getting a job...

Educate thyself.

Cobra.

"It's a hallucinogen, it deteriorates motor skills, it generally has very negative effects on the mind, and can exacerbate the symptoms of many mental disorders."

Indeed, and? Not sleeping well does the same things, and to far greater degree. Perhaps it should be mandated by law that you sleep from 9pm to 5am? More in line with a drug, certain foods have similar effects. Exacerbating symptoms of many mental disorders is something so common you might as well shoot yourself now and get it over with. Cane sugar should most definitely be illegal by this reasoning.

"It contains 20 times more ammonia, and contains five times as much hydrogen cyanide and nitrous oxides as tobacco, and contains about as many carcinogens. The effects of second hand smoke from Cannabis are totally unknown, and indeed the effects of smoking it in general are not well studied. Studies from the USA and Sweden are in conflict, with the US study claiming no direct deaths from smoking it, while the Swedish study claims increased risk of violent deaths."

The Swedish studies are irrelevant to your thesis. I'm guessing you didn't read them. Alcohol users were four times as likely to develop psychotic behavior, good ol' booze. It's also important to note that the biggest risks associate with underage use. Fucking with your brain is apparently less important after it's fully matured.

"Indeed, while studies show the risk of cancer deaths is not higher than tobacco deaths, they still show the risk is much higher than people who do not smoke at all. In particular, bullous lung disease, which is normally uncommon, is found in many Cannabis smokers. Habitual inhalation of any form of smoke is unhealthy."

The summation of this is that breathing fire is bad. No shit. So is stabbing myself with a pencil, but it's not illegal. If you want to be a walking ashtray in your own home, what the fuck do I care? What business of mine is it? If you want to perform ritual cuttings on your dick, I don't really have any valid reason to stop you do I?

Second hand smoke has nothing to do with the issue, they're already banning smoking in public places all over the country. Limiting the use to private areas and restricting driving and other potentially problematic activities to those of sound mind are common sense regulations, and have nothing to do with a substance being legal or illegal. You're not supposed to drive while using nyquil unless you've previously determined that it doesn't hinder your abilities, would you make cold medicine illegal?

Legislating morality doesn't work, as can be seen by the massive increase in drug use since it was made illegal. Educate them, no bullshit either. The assholes lying to people in the sixties did irreparable damage to their cause. If they choose to fuck themselves up, let them. If they start fucking other people up, remove them from society.

Chrizzle

"Then it seems to me that your education system is failing these people."

Yes.

"My personal believe is that there needs to be a radical shift in the way we deal with crime in North America. You are right that a very large percentage of crime is drug and or gang or poverty related. My solution is simple we need to start giving proper treatment and education in our prisons. We also need to stop sentencing people for lengths of time, but rather we should sentence them to complete certain tasks."

No. Fire the fucking teacher that isn't doing their job or passes a student that can't read. No hearings, no excuses, no more lazy fuck teacher. Problem solved. The illiteracy rate of high school graduates is what happens when you let morons run their own system. Kill the unions and you kill the problem with the education system. Your solution is putting a band aid on a gunshot wound when the victim is already dead. After they've become a career criminal is a little late to be giving them a good start in life.

I do like your two strikes philosophy though.

SpacePony, if all else fails there's only one thing left to do. Run for office on a judicial re-reform platform. We need more balls in congress anyway.

Statistical source, please.



"Unsupported by studies" meaning you never bothered to look. Studies exist in plenty of numbers; you are simply ignoring them. My points about mental disorders are actually supported by studies.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673607611623/abstract
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/rapidpdf/bmj.38267.664086.63v1?ehom
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070727/marijuana_psychosis_070727?s_name=&no_ads=
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080123104017.htm

Cool. I would say congratulations, but it doesn't seem right. Hopefully you can put this all behind you now.