From your link:

"Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. This absence of belief generally comes about either through deliberate choice, or from an inherent inability to believe religious teachings which seem literally incredible. It is not a lack of belief born out of simple ignorance of religious teachings."

So unless you believe that some people are just mentally incapable of belief due to some physical defect, you have to accept that the Atheist weighs the information given him or her and decides which to BELIEVE. Atheism isn't a belief in God, but it most certainly is a belief system, and an unprovable, subjective one.

So, when you undertake to make yourself more intelligent, or more honest, or more scientific, or whatever because you are an Atheist, you are no different than people of any other belief who inflate themselves because they think their beliefs make them better than other people. You just adopt the bad habits of the people you despise, lording your philosophy over other people's.

And you keep, over and over, dodging the real point here: NO ONE BELIEVES IN THE CIRCUMSTANCE ABOVE. Find me a single person, a single organizational Christian doctrine that believes that God either must answer the prayer above or not exist. Never mind the untold numbers of other belief systems that accept the existance of a god besides Christianity.

The main fact about this blog is that it is based upon a lie, which is in turn based upon ignorance. People tend to hate what they don't understand, and I think the experiment listed above shows that Foxjazz doesn't know enough about Christian doctrine to be a judge of it.

I think it is telling that the page linked by foxjazz uses forms of the word "belief" around 100 times, all the while trying to make the point that Atheism is somehow different than other beliefs. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Foxjazz accuses me of toying with the definition of Atheism, but if you look at their explaination of why Atheism isn't a faith, they do the same thing with the word "faith"...

"Faith is more often used to refer to complete, certain belief in something. According to such a definition, atheism and science are certainly not acts of faith. Of course, individual atheists or scientists can be as dogmatic as religious followers when claiming that something is "certain". This is not a general tendency, however; there are many atheists who would be reluctant to state with certainty that the universe exists."

Their own definitions shift and bob, one minute disavowing belief, and the next using the word to describe Atheism. It's really no different than any religion, tons of different divisions and definitions and in-fighting over what no one can prove.

Jill, Yes, an atheist says "there is no God." But also can say, "I lack belief." An agnostic says "I can't be sure there is a God." If you have a feeling there is one, but still not sure, then I guess you'd be a searching agnostic.

Actually I am a Deist. Agnostics have no belief in God. They simply state that God can neither be proven nor disproven.

All I can do is introduce you to him and you judge for yourself.

But you can't introduce me to him KFC. God has to introduce himself.

God wants you to believe only on Faith" can only be the beginnings of a scam.

The bible says it, but that doesn't really prove anything. Anyone could have written a book and put the word "holy" in the title knowing it would help it sell a lot of copies.

“If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.”
-- Baron D’Holbach (Paul Henry Thiry), 18th century European philosopher

“When I look up at the starry heavens at night and reflect upon what it is that I really see there, I am constrained to say,
‘There is no God.’ It is not the works of some God that I see there. … I see no lineaments of personality, no human
traits, but an energy upon whose currents solar systems are but bubbles.”
-- John Burroughs, 19th century American naturalist


“The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence. Science is simply common sense at its
best—that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
-- Thomas Huxley, 19th century biologist

“Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.”
-- Aldous Huxley, early 20th century author and grandson of Thomas Huxley

“When two men of science disagree, they do not invoke the secular arm; they wait for further evidence to decide the
issue, because, as men of science, they know that neither is infallible. But when two theologians differ, since there is no
criteria to which either can appeal, there is nothing for it but mutual hatred and an open or covert appeal to force.”
-- Bertrand Russell, 20th century English mathematician and Nobel-prize-winner in literature

“I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.”
-- Benjamin Franklin, American revolutionary, statesman and inventor

“The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated
statements of Christian dogma.”
-- Abraham Lincoln, sixteenth President of the United States

“To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, like
Abraham Lincoln, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which
is one of the foundations of American life.”
-- Theodore Roosevelt, twenty-sixth President of the United States

“I do not believe in the divinity of Christ and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I
cannot subscribe.”
-- William H. Taft, twenty-seventh President of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court Chief Justice (1921 to 1930)

“The lessons of religious toleration—a toleration which recognizes complete liberty of human thought, liberty of
conscience—is one which, by precept and example, must be inculcated in the hearts and minds of all Americans if the
institutions of our democracy are to be maintained and perpetuated.”
-- Franklin Roosevelt, thirty-second President of the United States

“I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.”
-- Mark Twain, 19th century author, humorist, and satirist

“If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can inoculate.”
-- Carl Sagan



“Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly
in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of
a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”
[Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787.]

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you
dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
-- Stephen F. Roberts, Atheist activist

“If the ignorance of nature gave birth to gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.” -- Baron D’Holbach (Paul Henry Thiry), 18th century European philosopher

Let us just take the first, for like the rest of the quotes, they all share a common theme.  They are statements of belief of men, who have yet to be proved right.  Hardly a convincing argument for atheism.

Not really the same thing, Para. When you rule out an illness, you are only ruling it out at the moment you test, and only within the person you test, and only within the accuracy of the test. You aren't ruling out the total existence of the illness, just that this one person, in this one moment, doesn't fail the test within the margin of error.

The problem of science is the human tendency for absolutes. You hear it all the time. We want to define things and then walk off from them, but our attempts to are usually foiled the next week when our technology allows us to get more data. Just look how physics has changed in the last 100 years.

I don't have a problem with Foxjazz believing there is no God. On the other hand he seems to think it is his duty to stop other people from believing in God. In that light, it's his responsibility to prove his assertion, and the article above is just and idiotic way to do it. HIs assertion requires him to prove that God doesn't exist, and without omniscience, there's no way to do that.

I just happen to call that creator God.

BTW....did you know the creator God, Elohim, of the OT is Jesus of the NT?

The problem is people, on either side, get so persuaded by their subjective, unprovable beliefs that they think anyone who differs with them must be evil, blind, or stupid. Instead of being "better" than Christians, Foxjazz has just proved that intolerant, undisciplined minds can be just has hateful and ignorant no matter what flavor of philosophy they espouse.

God knows, KRC, but we BELIEVE. In that case, all of us may be surprised until we KNOW. I don't put you on the same level as Foxjazz, because you aren't telling people that they are stupid or dishonest because their beliefs differ with yours.

Foxjazz just proves if you go far enough to one extreme you eventually wrap around and start behaving like the people at the other extreme.

Did you know that Vladimir Harkonen was Paul Atriedes Grandfather?

Ah yes, Dune. Venturing further into obscure sci-fi now are we? Careful, the atheists will surely point out how nonbelievers can easily equate the bible with sci-fi or fairy tales. We don't really need to go there again.

I am persuaded in whom I believe and am waiting for the day...when it comes...boy will you be surprised!! But as for me .... I'm going to be ready

God knows, KRC, but we BELIEVE. In that case, all of us may be surprised until we KNOW

We’ll certainly know when we get Home, that’s for sure. I’ve learned that it’s possible to know even while we’re still on earth. (That’s said at the risk of sounding arrogant or utterly misguided, to others. But I don’t care anymore. This is just my point of view.) This ‘knowledge’ is like a similar sphere of knowledge to someone who might know that their own mother loves them. Although it’s not exactly the same, but that can illustrate the principle roughly. Even though this kind of thing can’t be proved in a scientific way, it is true that a spiritual bond - or spiritual reality - can have enough substance and truth to be ‘known’ by a person.

Regarding the existence of Heaven, which is the spirit world – the Real World - it is true that some things are secret for a reason. God obviously thought it wiser for His children to embark on a journey in order for us to search and discover Truth - and for our spirits to unfold like flowers - rather than to ‘wake up in the castle’, so to speak. The more our bud opens, the more we become aware – intuitively, spiritually and psychically – until we can actually know the Truth, or can at least attain much larger glimpses of it than can our five mortal senses.

There’s an all wise and beneficent purpose for this veil that prevents us from knowing the whole truth. It has something to do with promoting optimum spiritual advancement and muscle-building. From the perspective of the other side, where we can see clearly the bigger picture and all of life’s purposes – and all the lessons that need to be learned – it’s difficult to understand what all this fuss is about, i.e. it’s difficult to understand concepts like “doubt”, “struggle”, or “argument”. But as soon as we get down here, we can better understand.

Once we’ve experienced enough incarnations, however, and our flower has blossomed, and we’ve learned all the lessons we need, we’ll move on to other adventures in higher planes of existence. Ultimately, at the end of all our adventures we will surrender all and become One with God. (This principle of Oneness was taught by Jesus as well as the Budda, incidentally - John 17.23.) Buddhists might call this state of completion and oneness “Nirvana”. I agree with that. I also think it might be “the end of days”, for by then God will have experienced and garnered a great abundance of love and wisdom indeed. Moreoever, a greater good will have arisen because of all the crap and negativity than we had experienced, rather than in spite of it.