Muggaz

Join Date 12/2003

Stupid Al-Quada

Dont make bully mad.

This weekend has been rather depressing.

Some of you may not know the left wing ‘Zealot’ that many consider me to be. I cannot stand conservatives, and I am staunchly against most of the USA’s policies… It’s funny, if you will look at my first blogs, quite a bit of fire and spice amongst them.

Admittedly, I was a narrow minded fool, and I took all Americans for ignorant/arrogant warmongering conservatives, merely because of the fact that I have never had a day to day interaction with them. Several months on, and I know this is not the case because of my friends here at JU.

In all honesty, I consider myself to be an idiot for having the feelings I did against Americans… The qualms I have are not with the people, but with the government – fortunately Mr. Wardell was kind enough to point out that it’s the people who select the government anyway, so I do still dislike the US general public immensely, but I have grown up a bit, and I approach every situation with a bit more of an open mind.

I feel like I a going to get remonstrated for what I am about to say, but really, I don’t care. I am so mad that Al Quada have hit targets in Spain… They did this because Spain chose to send troops to Iraq and have generally been a staunch supporter of the US. Surely Al Quada can recognise the fact the countries like Spain and Australia merely support the US because of political pressure? I.e. Australia could kiss free trade agreement good-bye if we didn’t support, and Spain was probably going for reconstruction contracts. We only have ourselves to blame for bowing to this political pressure, but when the big kid knocks; you give him what he wants.

I thought the enemy of Al Quada is USA, and everyone else was just secondary. Al Quada has proved otherwise, and this is quite possibly the worst move they could have entertained. Europe was by no means supporters of Al Quada, however, any chance of redemption and peace is out the window. I suppose what I am trying to say is, instead of hitting a European interest, they should have stuck to ataching the American interests.

No one will have any tolerance for this rubbish now… I always thought that there would be hope for the world while Europeans were still looking through rose tinted glasses. The Europeans must now realise that as long as they support the US like such, they are susceptible to attacks as well. As an Australian, my biggest fears have just been realised – whether Al Quada can be bothered with us, I suppose that remains to be seen, but we must not discount it after this.

It’s also important for the US to realise that Spain has seen this death, not because of their oppression of Al Quada, or their support of Israel, it’s because they supported the USA.

This War on Terror is losing its shade everyday – its becoming more black and white, the us vs. them mentality is sinking in. The Jihad’s and various Intifada’s will never stop, America as we know it will never give in, and I am very afraid for humanity.

Peace.

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You have reason to fear. The Muslim extremists will make the communists look like nice guys and the U.S. won't change even if Bush loses the election.

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I know, unfortunately it is a catch 22 that will only be resolved with the US giving ground.. Hawks or Liberals in power, its never going to happen.

What do we do Sherye... what do we do

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

What should you do? Be thankful that people who actually know something as well as understand it are in charge of things and not naive people.

I don't think you're a zealot, Muggaz. I think are young. And I don't mean that as patronizing because I remember myself when I was younger. You don't know what things you truly grasp yet and which things you're grasping at without comprehension.

I don't think you have even begun to comprehend the monstrous evil that is Al Qaeda. There are monstes in the world and once in awhile people stand by and let them do their work. Their inaction results in things like the Holacaust where 12 MILLION people were exterminated. Or Rwanda where nearly a million people were slaughtered.

And Al Qaeda, if it had the means, would do things that would make this look like child's play. How do we know? Because they've said so. If they had a nuclear weapon or two, they'd use it. They'd happily bomb New York killing millions. And luckily, Americans grasped this after 9/11. And we grasped that countries in that region such as Saddam's Iraq couldn't be allowed to go on as they had so we removed him. And we'll probably do a lot more in the coming years.

But if you think the US is something to be fearful of or some sort of creature of evil, then you're incredibly foolish and naive. Sherye is rarely correct about anything but she is right about one thing, the US won't change because regardless of the party, adults are in charge and they have enough experience to know that monsters still roam the earth and that they have to be dealt with.

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Draginol

Join Date 03/2001

+137

BTW, in what way shoudl the US "give ground"? Stop building buildings?

Did you ever ask why the US military was in Saudi Arabia? Because Iraq invaded Kuwait and after the cease fire Saudi Arabia asked the US to maintain a presence there "just in case". What ground does the US need to give?

The only ground the US could give that would satisfy Bin Laden and his ilk would be total capitulation and full conversion to Islam. You ready to do that?

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More often than not Brad, you have a really sound argument...

By giving ground i was referring to Israel and Palestine, because essentially this is the prime crux of the issue for the Terrorists.. You are never going to be able to please the extremist's like Bin Laden, however, fortunately for us, most muslims aren't extremist, yet you see Bin Laden getting support on the streets of the middle east - just because the people support him, doesn't mean they agree with his methods... ask anyone in the US Army - its their perogative to support the president... and for the Arabs, he is the closest thing they have.

I would be rather interested to see Al-Quada's reaction if Isreal just ceased to exist... all the Jews packed up and acknowledged Palestinian sovreignity... I know that is't going to happen, but like i say, It would be interesting to see the reaction... That is one hell of a compromise, but if Al-Quada got their hands on a Nuke, I imagine that would have to be a prospect worthy of consideration.

I refuse to beleive that Al Quada is a monstrous evil. All of the Nazis weren't evil, just incredibly blind and stupid. We both know that mosters roam this earth and they need to be dealt with... I would just like to see some forum of alternate methods. I dont have the gift of forsight, but the younger genrerations aren't going to grow up in Afghanistan and Iraq loving America aks the liberated Japanese and Germans... If you beleive they will, you are the naive one.

I dont personally fear the US Brad... i have no reason to... but every action forces an equal or opposite reaction, its the retribution of the US hard hand tactics that i fear.

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Surely Al Quada can recognise the fact the countries like Spain and Australia merely support the US because of political pressure?

That's exactly why they did it, why they targeted them. That's the mind set, Muggaz. That's why they're labelled 'terrorists'. The dictionary's definition of terrorism is 'systematic use of violence, terror and intimidation to acheive an end' That's what they're doing, and what they will continue to do until they reach their 'end'..unless someone steps in and attempts to stop them.

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Europe is going to do what they've always done, sit on their hands. They're shitting their pants because of the huge Muslim minorities they've got.

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JillUser

Join Date 11/2003

+17

Muggaz, I know plenty of Germans that love America and Americans. That goes for Japanese also. If you don't believe Al Qaeda members are monsters, how do you define monster? I think that anyone willing to exterminate innocents simply because they don't live according to their religion is a monster.

I find your description of Nazis upsetting. If they weren't evil at some level, why go along with the atrocities they were committing? If I had the option of either stuffing people in ovens/shooting children, etc or having a bullet to the head, I'd take the bullet. Good people simply can't be pushed into doing monstrous things. How come some Germans risked everything to help Jews? Just because they weren't as blind or stupid as some of those Nazis? Don't make excuses for evil. There is no excuse.

Also, Al Qaeda doesn't just have it out for the US. It has it out for anyone who lives the Western way. I know what Al Qaeda's reaction would be if Israel ceased to exist.........."good start".

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Jill, i think you missed my point completely... Germans and Japanese love Americans as liberators... Afghans and Iraqi's wont.

If you find my Nazi comment upsetting, i find your lack of faith in human nature upsetting. This is a terrible thing to say, but you cant honestly say you would take a bullet to the head, or that you wouldn't do it, because it's 100% hypothetical. The Nazis were doing what they saw as the norm, this in no way excuses what they did, but as far as they knew or beleived, it was the norm.

Some Germans did risk everything for the Jews, because, they were great people, but dont you dare exagurate the numbers... it was extremely minimal, kind of like the people who want to help the guys currently in Guantanimo bay. Most Germans didn't have any idea what was happening to the Jews, and that includes most of the Armed forces other that the Luftwaffen SS.

and Jill, with my remark as far as Isreal ceasing to exist, i meant only as a soveriegn state/land mass, and i have to say - i share the same opinion as Al-Qaeda that it would be a good start... that may be extreme, but desperate measures call for desperate counter-measures. The creation of Isreal was always a disaster waiting to happen, and i imagine if those responsible had the gift of forsight, they maybe would have thought twice.

BAM!!!

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Hmm, right. I'vve been reading the comments and I can't help but say a couple things.

First of all, yes, Al Quaeda's members are largely all monsters. Fine. The questioin is, how do you go about treating the problem? America's method today obviously isn't helping. It's not just the preemptive action that is really hurting their progress, but also things like closing down the hard-to-check money-handling operations that you often get in and between Islamic nations to help out the poor. Of c
Then there's the mdeia, oh boy, the media. I live in Belgium, and the most popular newspaper had a front page wprinted with the words: "Islamic Terror Strikes Again." Not only was this premature (day after bomb blasts in Madrid), but it's also as big a generalisation as you can imagine. 1/3 of the population buys this newspaper. 1/3 of Belgium is retarded. Well, let's hope not, shall we?

As for the whole thing about ISrael, that's about as unlikely ever to happen as my German ever improving. I mean, this whole argument is based around the possibility of Al Qaeda acquiring a nuclear warhead. Fine, so when they have this warhead, how are they going to deliver it? Ever thought about that? It's not impossible, but either Al Qaeda needs extensive support from a nuclear-capable nation, or they'll have to gamble and try to take the thing to the target another way.

But since they have to THREATEN us first (why evacuate the Jews otherwise?), the whole world will know that the possibility of a nuclear strike exists, further complicating Al Qaeda's mission, especially if they do not have support from a nuclear-capable nation. My point is simply that you shouldn't worry too much about a nuclear threat from Al Qaeda per se, let NOrth Korea take care of that for a change.

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Al Qaeda is an evil menace, the no.1 evil in the world today. Why?

Because they do not hold to one place for starters, so to enact a war against them is very difficult indeed. But it is exactly for this reason that they must be fought at ever step, and not only that, they MUST BE SEEN TO BE BEING FOUGHT, so that everyone knows the consequences of supporting them.

You see, if Al Queda had its way, it WOULD have a foothold in every western country, and it would strike at these countries eventually. These people are fundamentalists, and their fundamental belief is that Islam is the only way, and that the rest of the world, especially the western, largely non-Islamic countries, are all cursed satanic beasts. You see, that is how sick they are, they see us as the beast.

In the western world we have a name for that, it's called mental illness. That is what these people are, ill. They are fixated, obsessed with a fight that is largely the result of wanderings into paranoia and imagination. These people are nothing but warmongers and hatemongers, and if they had their way, they would destroy, or forcefully take over, much of the world, converting all to their misinterpreted religion.

WE MUST STAND AGAINSTS THESE DANGEROUS FOOLS, FOR THEY ARE FOOLS, BUT STILL VERY VERY DANGEROUS.

PLEASE NOTE: I understand the large majority of Muslims are law abiding, peaceful, people, and this is in no way an attack on Muslims. We all have bad apples in the bunch, every religion, faith and society.

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You see, if Al Queda had its way, it WOULD have a foothold in every western country, and it would strike at these countries eventually. These people are fundamentalists, and their fundamental belief is that Islam is the only way, and that the rest of the world, especially the western, largely non-Islamic countries, are all cursed satanic beasts. You see, that is how sick they are, they see us as the beast.

I would argue that if the USA had it's way, it WOULD have a foothold in EVERY country, and it already has its own way of affecting every single country in the whole world, directly or indirectly - in a negative or positve aspect.

I don't know who to blame... Hollywood perhaps... some countries embrace McDonalds, cheesy movies and basically - from a highly ethical person, a controversial and perhaps dis-respectful way of life. Other countries find the culture crosses too many lines, and they're is just no saying no to an arrogant people who are used to getting their own way.

Perhaps the states should acknowledege these contires, and perhaps be a little more respectful... It all comes down to each and every different perspective of what respect is.

I am not preaching here, I cannot claim to know the answers... Its the way i see things though, and it makes me upset that we all just cant get along.

BAM!!!

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I would argue that if the USA had it's way, it WOULD have a foothold in EVERY country, and it already has its own way of affecting every single country in the whole world, directly or indirectly - in a negative or positve aspect.

And you know the British past history....Huh?

a controversial and perhaps dis-respectful way of life.

This is a completely unfounded statement. A small percentage are maybe bad, but we ALL have bad apples. I would add to this, mostly, in the US, the crims kill the other crims (yes innocents die but in the main part it's not like that), that rule goes out of the window when you go to certain Middle East, and other countries in the world. In other words, the US has a better system of law, and better ethics than many, many, other countries in the world.

Other countries find the culture crosses too many lines, and they're is just no saying no to an arrogant people who are used to getting their own way.

This would seem to me like a rather arrogant statement. It is one thing to give an opinion about a percentage of a population, but to tar a whole society for the acts of that percentage, shouts of hipocrisy and arrogance. There is a British law which basically means that in court, if you call someone a liar, you are bringing their character into question, whereas if you just say they must have been mistaken, you are fine. The consequence of bringing their character into it, is like the stepping over of a line, once you have done it there is no turning back. In ethical terms there is no similar law, if there was, you would have just broken it. In other words, by casting such a personal attack on Americans you have opened yourself up for similiar attacks on your personality. Again this is my opinion, but it's sound judgement i'm working from, and a solid template, so of course I am correct.

Its the way i see things though, and it makes me upset that we all just cant get along.

I would not wish to get along with somebody who had prejudiced the whole of my society as 'arrogant' and 'controversial and perhaps dis-respectful way of life'.

I must note here, I have no affiliation or connection with any Americans. I speak to many on a certain forum which I will not mention here, and they ALL seem to be good, honest, and friendly people. I have yet to meet an exception to this rule, though obviously there will be, as I have already said, we all have bad apples.

They are no more arrogant than I am myself, and in the sense of being patriotic, it is easy for someone to be seem as they are being arrogant, where it is really patriotism. If anything, I can only credit the Americans for being so proud of their country and people, and the younger generation of British people could learn a lot about patriotism from them.

But thats just my opinion.

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Shane,

Other countries find the culture crosses too many lines, and they're is just no saying no to an arrogant people who are used to getting their own way

If you dont see any problems with kids going around shooting up high schools, or extreme cases of gang related crime, then embrace the culture all you want buddy... I dont see any of the same style crimes to the same extent in any other western country, the same incidents of divorce, welfare... the list goes on. I know its all relative to population, but per capita, i would still claim i am right. I invite you to prove me wrong. We had the port arthur incident here in Australia, however, an isolated incident.

I was saying that other cultures - i.e. Muslims, find their culture dis-respectful.. and the USA should acknowledge that fact and work around it the best way possible.

I know all about Britains past history, and that has nothing to do with it.. When are you people going to stop blaming the past and look to the future??? If you knew anything about their history, you would realise they stuffed up pretty hard because of their 'Sun never sets on the British Empire' mantra... and its going to happen all over again...

And for your information, i am an arrogant/confident person, so ALL of my posts will probably come across that way. If you cant acknowledge that arrogance/patriotism is a character trait of the American personality though, as a general rule rather than exception, you are wasting both yours and my time. Whether it is arrogance or patriotism - it causes problems for the rest of the world.

BAM!!!

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Hi, you need a reality check. The radical Muslims have, and always will be, the enemy of anything remotely like the Western world. This includes pretty much any free or semi-free persons under any sort of democracy or republic. They are still fighting the Crusades, which they started by trying to conquer most of Europe and Eurasia.

How you can be against US policies and the US in general is beyond me. You enjoy all these freedoms of being in America, yet you are obviously hardly an American. Move to China, see how free you are. Or go to the Middle East. They won't ask you if you like Bush before they blow up the bus you are riding on, or in the case of Spain, the train. They want all of us dead. If you do not like the US, they revoke your citizenship and move to a better country. Oh wait, there isn't one.

One more point, it is US vs. THEM. They don't see it any other way, why should we? They don't want peace, they want the Western world toppled so we can be as back-asswards as they are.

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Hey Reality:

Muggaz is from Australia.

Yeah.

~Anne.

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I just checked reality....

he is a closed minded fool.

BAM!!!

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If you cant acknowledge that arrogance/patriotism is a character trait of the American personality though, as a general rule rather than exception, you are wasting both yours and my time.

Ok, I'm going to disagree here. Arrogance and Patriotism might be a character trait of US political personalities and the government, but I think you might be stretching it to paint an entire nation with one stroke of the brush.

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Shades...

I hate to be pedantic, but i would be wasting my time if i included little disclaimers all the time... Of course the WHOLE nation isn't like that, however, i would say there are more like that than not....

You have to remember, in a great democracy like the USA, the governement and political personalities ARE the representatives of the people, hand picked by them... so maybe you should re-assess what you just said... If not judged by them, it's judged by pop/sport culture where arrogance and patriotism is in no short supply at all...

BAM!!!

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i would say there are more like that than not....

and I would disagree...and I'd hazard a guess that I've meet a few more American's in my days than you have.

You have to remember, in a great democracy like the USA, the governement and political personalities ARE the representatives of the people

They might represent the people, but they AREN'T the people. It would be like me saying that all Australians are wimps because Australia's been siding with America even when everyone else stood up for themselves and bailed ship (I'm referring to when Australia voted against the UN Commission on Human Right's condemnation of the Yassin killing). I mean, Australia is a democracy, so that is representative of you, correct? And if not poltics, then I could argue that all Australian's are flighty, self-centered bimbos, because in pop culture you are represented by Kylie "I'm superficial at best" Minogue and Russell "my ego barely fits in my country" Crowe.

But if I did that, my logic would be faulty at best--just as yours is.

Also, on a side note: Democracies do not necessarily represent the people--they represent a majority of the "voting" public. When you have low voter turnouts like we do in the US--that's not saying much.

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You make a fair argument...

I AM saying Australian's are wimps because we sided with you. We dont have a choice though - Its our National interest to suck up and comply with Americans, so we do... not because we want to, but because we have to. If i was in govenrment, i would have probably maybe done the same thing, because the resulting free trade agreemant will be very beneficial for our country. Ultimately going to Iraq and voting against commisions is a means to an end for us... And Yes, we choose the government here as well, but its a fact going to Iraq in unilateral action was not a move supported by the people unless it was sanctioned by the UN - so no, these particular instances aren't representatives of us, and our govenrment will pay at the next election!

Also, before you start judging my country on the only two Australian's you know, i advise you learn a bit more... try Link and maybe you can truely see our opinion on the war/troops in Iraq and what goes on here. I see American culture every single day on my TV, the movies, Hollywood, the news, trust me on this, i know a damn site more about you're culture than you do of mine. Let me just be a smart ass to prove my point Marshall "its cool to be white trash thug gangsta" Mathers, Muhammed "I AM THE GREATEST" Ali, Britney "its cool to pretend your a virgin to sell record but be lying and get married in one night kiss Madonna publicity stunt" Spears...

We are not arguing facts here, we are arguing opinions, and mine isn't going to change, so you can accept the fact that i beleive a majority of Americans are arrogant/patriotic and deal with it, or you can argue your point till the cows come home and i will rebutt every single time.

Also, on a side note: Democracies do not necessarily represent the people--they represent a majority of the "voting" public. When you have low voter turnouts like we do in the US--that's not saying much.

That just typifies Arrogance... voting is a privelage... not a right.

BAM!!!

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I'd hazard a guess that I've meet a few more American's in my days than you have

I just wanted to add that your seeing them with American eyes as well...

When you are in a house for a long time, and there is this stench, you get used to it and dont realise it after a while, however, when coming into the house after a long time outside, or never been in the house at all... the smell is overwhelming...

BAM!!!

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Also, before you start judging my country on the only two Australian's you know

I wasn't actually trying to judge Australians--just pointing out faulty logic--and those aren't the only two Australian's I know. I've already judged all Australian's based on Home and Away

That just typifies Arrogance... voting is a privelage... not a right.

Actually, in a democracy voting is a right. But failure to vote doesn't necessarily reflect arrogance only--there are a number of reason's why people don't vote. The "I don't give a damn it doesn't change anything for me" attitude is only one. Government dominance, government mandates, education quality, trust in government, and the two party system are other factors in turnout. Also, if compulsory voting wasn't strictly enforced in Australia do you really think that there'd still be a 90%+ turnout?

We are not arguing facts here, we are arguing opinions

Actually, we are debating stereotypes. I've spent enough time outside the US to know that the country doesn't smell like roses. I fully recognize the effect that American (especially Bush) dominance has had in the world--I actually think your blog was very well articulated on the point--but while I'll concede that we have a lot of awful foreign policy, I'm not willing to say that the entire nation is arrogant. Agreeing to disagree is fine by me.

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I'm not seeing Americans through American eyes, mine are British, and they still like what they see:) America is a good country.

It is just as fair to say all Americans are arrogant, as it is to say that all Aussies are the stock of criminals. Whilst both statements might have some truths, they are still false statements. Of course in Britain, both statements would be partly true, just as true as when applied to Australia or America, but because something has a little truth doesn't mean it's reality.

My point about arrogance and confidence being similar, or appearing so is thus. We each must have, or know of a really confident type of person who walzes into a bar like he owns it? Such confidence can easilly appear as arrogance, when it is not. Confidence makes one sure of themselves, which in turn makes their voice louder, or rather, their ability to speak up increases. American brashness in my opinion reflects their firmly grounded confidence, and signifies a proud society.

But that is my opinion, and were all entitled to that.

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It is just as fair to say all Americans are arrogant

OK... for the fith time... ALL Americans aren't arrogant... just most

I agree with the confidence/arrogance thing as well Shane...

Thanks for your comments guys... Its good to see some people got some stimulating conversation out of this article... i hate to blow my own horn, but i was quite proud of it, and was a bit upset that it didn't get the exposure i would have liked...

BAM!!!

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