Thanks man!

All tiers?  So Bronze V too?  If so, that would really throw off the statistics.  There is a dark place in EloHell where 4v5's and even 4v4's have their own meta.  Using statistics that poll those games would be slightly suspect I imagine.

But even Champion.GG that only takes into account Plat+ games is crap if you take it too seriously.  Are people buying the item that helps them win?  Or are they just buying the item when they're winning?

Thanks buddy.  The 5th game in the series had a really rough start.  That was some good advice about not giving up that you gave me!  

and a 2nd darius pentakill at worlds.  Nice job, rito!

Guess I am diamond 4 again! Better hurry up and get challenjor since TSM is trying out people. 

Game 1 skt vs ahq is entertaining at least.  Curious to see how this pans out.  

Anyway, I'm trying to put into practice a bunch of the things I learned from the thresh coaching vids.  Unfortunately for me, a bunch of it is retraining - little things like looking the other direction when trying to hook when possible (makes it more difficult to dodge without the added line of sight visual cue).  More complex things like hyper aggression early game.  Deciding if I'll take the korean approach and actually start with hook - not exactly a fan, but it does create more pressure and zoning potential when you are trying to rush to level 2.  Getting used to the rune page setup change (common setup is the subbing in added AD).  Deciding if I'm going to respec my ranged support mastery setup.  

Top lane ganks - quite a bit of what I've been reading is that its common among good supports to go top or mid after immediately after the 1st back for a gank - this means tons of pressure if you pull if off with the jungler and HOPEFULLY a minimal trade off in cs for bot lane.  That strat typically relies on a mobo boots rush - another thing I don't usually do.

Itemization changes - still trying to rethink by build order/timing. I had been default building the tier 2 gold upgrade.  That gets more dicy as I'm looking to not build FOTM on thresh and instead swap to coin.  Then there's the decision to do a mobo boots rush or not - which 90% of the time means sacrificing an early sightstone and having to get green additional green wards (and you don't get the tier 2 gold upgrade for added income).  This makes the roam mid or top more painful if it fails for you, but it should alleviate pressure on the top laner.

Back to top lane support ganks early  -that seems to be a pretty big theme amongst higher elo players from what I've been watching lately.  Kind of surprising to me as honestly, I've seen early top lane support ganks maybe 10-15 times out of all the league games I've ever played.   Perhaps its more common at higher elos because your top lane teammate is more likely to capitalize on it and and snowball their lane as a result that it offsets the 2-5 cs potentially lost bot lane.  But even that play could turn a bunch.  For instance, last night I made a top lane roam and the jungler popped in making it 3v1 in our favor.  I think we took the turret immediately, but due to the time spent, my adc suffered a bit more.  Still - adc missing some cs and us taking some damage on a bot turret should be worth the kill/tower gained.  

Then there's adapting to the vision game with ruby sightstone and being more proactive with pinks + picking up additional greens late game.  Put all this together and its actually a pretty major rework to how I normally run support.  Anyway, I'll be going through a bit of an adaptation for a bit (meaning I'm likely going to be a bit more sloppy as I try to figure things out).  

One other thing - I think a pretty big adv caused by a top lane support gank - if you get a kill, you likely end tp pressure bot lane or dragon for a bit as well.  

You only know how to play 4 junglers?  waka waka

Naw - I get what you mean, but as its a completely new concept/technique to me, I'm not going to automatically know the best way to implement it.  Bunch of learning to do.  I'm thinking if I ran ali I'll be incredibly likely to try a gank top like that, but I'm not sure the best way to go about the thresh gank top.  Anyway, bad news - I'm probably going to be trying this a bunch as long as minor conditions are met and then start reducing the number of reasons I'd try it - gotta figure out what's good n whats poop.  

wow... I can't believe skt lost... i mean...

Yo pacov, nice games botlane recently.

Since i know you've been working on your Thresh and stuff, couple comments. Hopefully it doesn't seem too out of place - but let me know if it is! Obviously i am rusty as well, and there have been a few miscommunications either with me being oom or me using Ez E just as you use lantern, etc, so i'm sure i have stuff to improve on also! Espiecially since i'm still getting used to my mouse and i sometimes press the recall button instead of the ping button

1. In the Thresh/Ez vs Jinx/Bard game you got REALLY tilted for CS level 1. It sort of made us get chunked to 50% because Jinx was getting "free" rockets on us since our moves were so coreographed. i understand the desire to proc your relic shield ASAP so that we can heal up, but we don't want to get chunked either...

2. This can easily be fixed by voice-comms but at the same time this shouldn't require that much chatter... we certainly had sometimes where i'd leave up multiple creeps for relic shield  (this one time in particular i face-tanked 3 minions while no enemies were in lane and you were right next to me  and didn't notice!) and then i'd take them then the very next wave you'd blow everything for relic shield procs. We need a little bit better communication, and i think it's okay to focus mostly on just getting 1 proc at a time (when your E is charged up and it looks like there's no action...). It obviously hurts BOTH of our gold generation when that sort of stuff happens.

3. Generally we've had pretty good hustle when it comes to being aggressive... no real complaints there. i think sometimes the mid roams aren't super successful BUT that is a skill that takes a lot of practice (from the ADC, the Support AND the Mid) so that's just something that takes more time to maximize...

Re: Support Roams

I played an inhouse with MadCast a little while back playing Corki and had a good Thresh in lane with me.  Good mechanically.  We got really far ahead from a gank.  When I cam back from my first shop I was ready to zone/kill our opponents, then take a Dragon.

So the Thresh roams mid.  They spot him and their bot lane proceed to zone me out while he hides in a bush while the enemy mid hides under tower.  For what seemed like five minutes.  Eventually he goes out to dive the enemy mid, doesn't go well, has to go back to base.  I'm under my tower zoned from Gold and Xp the whole time.  He comes back to lane and instead of far ahead, we're far behind.

Not an expert on when the Support should roam but my 2 cents is... don't turn a won bot lane into a lost lane for a gank that might work.  Roaming doesn't automatically do that but it does if you can't get it done quickly.  Mobi boots and pots are ideal so you can get there quick and heal up after your gank and get back bot!

Re: Thresh Procs And Hedgie Pacov Lanes

1.  Watched that game.  Hedgie seemed to do his best to try to "pound CS" and got pounded back really really hard by Jinx rockets.  Ez isn't a strong early game ADC so expecting him to be Graves or Caitlyn isn't realistic.

I wouldn't try the Krug strat in the future if you guys lane together with Thresh and Ez.  Thresh is okay at taking them, but he's no Braum/Leona/Morgana.  Ezreal... I can't think of too many ADC's less suited for it.  Or less suited to your new level 2 hyper-aggressive playstyle.  If you ever go back to your hyper-passive GP/10 Thresh, Ez is a much better choice.

2.  My favorite method by far is pinging.  If Thresh wants a CS, ping it.  If the Marksman wants to remind Thresh that a Cannon/Melee is getting low and to take it, ping.  It's less distracting than talking about it, and good practice for SoloQ when you're not gonna be in Teamspeak with your Support/ADC.

3.  In PDT games, sometimes there isn't a perfect call.  Depends on what your goal is, winning the game or keeping PDT from tilting maybe?  Can't really do both.  If he's not playing Malz, you can't really do either IMO.  

I asked someone over on lol summoner school that did a high end level support ama (challenger tier - also STAHP - I know I'm not challenger) about roaming, specifically with the loss to the bot lane in mind.  Here's what I posted - the whole article is worth a read as its specifically about roaming as a support:  https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/3obax8/how_to_properly_roam_as_a_support/cvw02nu?context=3.  

Not a fan of screwing the bot lane over and that's my specific concern with roaming as well.  

really getting sick of zileans...

OK - lets give that start a go if it ever happens again (you know... because junglers let ya start gromp all the time).  I'll take full xp in that instance and attempt to bully and get relic procs.  You think that's the best way to do it?  Support hits 2 prior to lane?  Not really sure.  Not going to complain about that start though.