Quoting Tormy-, reply 227
Yeah, I think that this is what Froggie meant. If this is correct, I am disappointed as well. 200v200 max? That is far from being an "epic battle". Oh well, if we can change the cap from 20 -> 100 for example via modding...well, I am not really worried in that case.
Agreed. 400 vs 400 doesn't sound like it would feel that "Epic" to me. As long as we can Mod that though I don't see a problem.
And yes, before anyone goes on and on about it, I agree that the word "Epic" is open to interpretation. Sometimes 1 on 1 can be Epic, like Gandalf vs the Balrog, but usually, when I think of "Epic", I think thousands of men vs thousands of men, like the battle of the 5 armies.
When it comes to balance though, if everything is balanced correctly, I don't see why it wouldn't be scalable and still maintain balance whether it's 400 vs 400 or 10,000 vs 10,000.
If we're going to be limited to 400 vs 400, I can tell you the first thing I'm modding....LoL
Note: That screen shot with the two armies (one with a Dragon) does seem to look like it has more then 800 units on screen. I didn't count them all to make sure though, someone else can count all those troops if they want though. I won't argue that the screen shot doesn't look cool, it does.
I still think it's going to have something to do with how champion units act within the army itself. If they take an entire slot you'll be hard pressed to find a champion that will be worth 100 soldiers, much less 1,000. It kind of diminishes the RPG side of the equation a bit when you do something like that. It applies to things like mythical creatures that won't necessarily come in groups large enough to contend with 1,000 units without having them be massively overpowering against smaller grouping.
If you want to scale up those units as well then you might have a lorebreaking situation, it's highly unlikely that a nation will be able to field 100 dragon units. while 10,000 vs 10,000 may be balanced. Somebody using say, the adventure path and is using champions instead with a mix of recruited mythical units and summons might field an army largely made of champions with lots of experience and great gear. They'll be limited to 10 "units" as well and end up 10,000 vs 10 or 10,000 vs 50. While it makes sense that the 10 would not be able to defeat 10,000 the fact that those 10 champions can't actually be in an army of thousands because they take up the same space as 1,000 soldier legions makes it imbalanced. Not to mention since every unit takes a tile and the calculations for battle are likely to be unit vs unit, there is no way a champion would survive an "attack" from a 1,000 strong unit.
Take for example heroes from any of the battles we are mentioning, helms deep, battle of five armies, minas tirith. Heroes have an effect on the battlefield but in no way could they hold off thousands alone, they lead armies. While a normal soldier might kill 5 or 6 enemies before biting it, a hero could kill 50 or 60. The only way to keep heroes as separate units in a battle is to keep the numbers smaller, something a hero could feasibly fight.
Ability to attach champions or other special recruited units to a unit as a "leader" of sorts. This way they cant be singled out in 1,000 vs 1 fights if the warfare has scaled to that level. This will diminish the effect of heroes on a battle since they'll just be a small boost to a legion with 1,000 soldiers in it, combat heroes would be especially diminished here and would need to provide a nice bonus to the group as a whole to make it worthwhile.
Magic would also be a concern here because the power required to kill 20 soldiers is vastly inferior to the power required to kill 1,000. I'm not really sure what kind of solution we could have for this. Do you have magic powerful enough to wipe out or significantly damage a legion? How does this balance out against the other paths you can take for your kingdom? Basically what can you do as somebody who didn't take the warfare large army path that will give you a chance, thus creating viability for all paths, that wouldn't make you exceptionally powerful against others who took a non warfare path. If you've got an aoe that can damage a group of legions decently, it would absolutely annihilate anything smaller.
Maybe a scaling damage/mana cost based on the size of the unit? Perhaps with increased casting requirements as well int/wis?