Ok, sorry to kind of back track this conversation, as my last post and the response with questions about it were like 4 pages back (and yet still within 24 hours....), but here we go.
"Those are terms that conservatives are calling liberals -- According to the conservative posters here, Obama is guilty of associating with "radicals." I myself happen to have anarchist leanings (only because I don't get out much, and I am under the mistaken impression that most people are like me -- which my husband assures me is not the way it is)."
1st of all, leftests are like the opposite of fascists. 2nd, there are indeed radicals on the right and left sides. There can be no doubt that, based on what legislation he has put forth and pushed through Congress, that he is a radical, too. Note, that 'radical' does not necissarily mean 'bad,' and I also used it as an adjective to fascitsts in my post, not that republicans would be called that (which is also the case in numerous places. My point was, however, to say that just blatantly calling people and their ideas names because you disagree with them is not necessary.. 3rd, anarchy has got to be the worst way to go, as far as forms of government, in my opinion. In anarchy, there is no "state" to which people can look to security or protestion, and there are no laws to stop anyone from infringing on there's rights (ie. rape, murder, burglery, etc. would all be 'legal').
The rest of the quotes are by Supakewreu:
"I am here as a liberal with an open mind. Please justify your statement that the current unfinished health care proposal, if enacted, will kill the economy."
1st, take a look at this: http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/03/news/economy/health_care_class_act.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009090310 This is a link to CNN, by the way, a site which most say is a democrat-biased news service. 2nd, how is taking a bunch of people, many who can't pay their own way in the 1st place, forcing everyone in the nation to pay for their health care, and then expecting to save money and get the same quality of care as everyone else had before, supoosed to work?
"Death panels, killing Grandma, etc. I would say he is justified in calling these tactics misinformation. Do you really believe in death panels?"
No, I do not believe in dealth panels, and yes, I am sure there is some misinformation out there, as there is with all things. However, claiming that some 30% of the American people changed their views on him and his reform plans because of this is nonsince. In fact, if there is so much of this misinfo around, you would expect it to have permiated my state, Idaho, as it is one of the reddest states in the Union (last democratic president Idaho has voted for was LBJ) . Has this been the case? No. But to disregard anyone's for disagreeing with him by saying they have been swayed only by 'politics and misinformation' is an extremely arrogent thing for anyone to say/do. As a US president, I would have expected more from him (also, whenever he gets asked a question he doesn't want to answer, guess what, he never actually answeres it. I wonder what it would be like in the schools he is speaking at if they took on that same philosophy...). Has he thought it might be 'reason,' and not those others? Secondly, in the bill's legislation, it does cut soem care for the elderly because it will "save money." You know what, not providing medical care in prisons would save money, too. Why don't we just let them all die and be rid of them (sarcasm in case someone can't tell).
"You are misquoting him, or misquoting his plans for the school event. I believe it was "what can you do to help the President". Do Republicans have so little respect for the office of the President that they object to this statement? Would they be crying indoctrination if George W Bush was addressing schoolchildren? Where was the Republican outrage when George H.W. Bush gave a speech to schoolchildren that contained specifics on his education policy?"
1stly, what else do you think he is doing, speaking to children? Passing out change? (ok, that was a bad joke...) It is not that I disrespect him that much, it is that when you put that quote in context of everyting else he has done and said during his reign as president, "what can you do for the President" does take on a negative connotation, even if you agree with the rest of his policies/ideals. Either way, can you tell me truthfully that that does not sound somewhat like brainwashing/propoganda/influencing without their parents there/indoctrination/etc. (I am not a radical, anti-democrat, I just take any threat to me and my fellow citizens' safety, security, wellbeing, rights, and freedoms seriously. Also, I am also not saying that what the republicans did was 100% right either.) HOWEVER, the way in which he is wanting to speak to minors about 'why they should help him, and that he is the president, and that becase he is the president, we should take everything he says to be the one and only truth, and that he is perfect, and that he can teach us many things because we are to stupid to figure anything out for ourselves and he is smarter than all of us (Machiavelli, anyone?), and everyone should be like him because he volunteers to say that, "I am such a good person"' seems like a big problem to me.
"I will not belittle you. I understand right wing policies as I am for the most part a fiscal conservative (within reason, there needs to be regulation). I welcome an open minded discussion, please help me understand why you think the health care reforms will kill the economy."
Thank you, and I hope I was succesful in convaying my points.
I heartily agree with your change/progress statement. Ever since the New Deal, most democrats (and some republicans) in goverment have been progressives, NOT LIBERALS, no matter what they tell you. Sen. Clinton has even admitted this, herself. By definition, progress means to move foreward. Change on the other hand, can be backward, side-to-seide, whatever. The "progressives" though, want everything to progress in such a way as to make America a socialist state and for them to be controlling it. The socialism will be a cover for their power-hungryness bey making everyone "feel good." But is it actually good? No. Does eating a bunch of junk food taste good/ You bet. But is it good for you? Not a chance. (Disclaimer: no, I am not a gonermnetal conspiratist ) BTW, you're Edit made me laugh, too.
Honestly, I would have a much greater respect for President Obama if he treated me with more respect. And to those of you who might think me disloyal because ofthis, I am not loyal solely to the entity of the president, I am loyal to American, all that she stands for (or rather, once stood for), and our government as a whole. The 1st amendment says we may petition goverment about their actions that we disagree with, and doing so is perfectly within my and everyone else's Constitutional rights.
And, as a final note, I greatly apprecaite all of you who have been willing to be civilized about this discussion and have kept a cool head. Well, have a happy Labor Day weekend everybody.