it is a very real and clear danger.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1528313029232126903&ei=diJCSuLnEdaI-Aa7rc3OBw&q=duck+and+cover&hl=en

I've said it before. Nobody that has the technology to do this would do it without some sort of follow up action (nuclear attack, invasion, whatever). Who would launch a missile with at least 1 MT nominal yield (yes, it must be a missile, because the explosion would have to be 250 km over the central US in order to be effective) and expect the US to sit and take it? A surface burst also has this effect... it extends approx. 8 miles from ground zero, bad if your there, but hardly a national disaster. If a missile comes from Russia (China, Iran, NK, the boogieman), it will pass the retaliatory strike from the US in mid air. So unless the attacker is prepared for world war III, the chances of this occurring are minuscule. Terrorists (including Iran and NK) don't have this technology. Great sci-fi but that's it. So don't worry about what to bring to the block party no electricity cookout, you'll have bigger worries with the impending war. Folks, I wouldn't lose any sleep over this one.

*cough* Utah *cough*

That is mind boggling ignorant. A wealth of guns will actually PREVENT social collapse, as people will be too afraid to start robbing.

Look at katrina? gangs started taking over, shooting police, mass rapes, looting... you send in the national guard and suddenly it is all gone. Had every house had a gun, you would not need the national guard to keep order.

No, Brad, I haven't read it. But it is a book that I would read if I had the opportunity, because it is interesting and a little bit frightening, like 28 days later without the rage but similiar situations. Basically, paranoid dystopia - and those are mostly a good read. And yes, Americans like being paranoid. It seems to be a way of living.

In Germany, people do not have guns en masse and pretty much listen and trust the authorities. In fact, nobody I know owns a gun. No civilian can buy a gun and have a license one week later if he doesn't have a record. Even if you are a hunter, it is a lot more difficult to get a license. There are of course exceptions, but they are what the name says - rare and not widespread.

Guns to prevent widespread violence? Yeah, that is the american national fairy tale. But I know that I am pretty alone with that one so no discussion about it.

Hm, one might also say that Germans love following rules and they love order. There is nothing worse than chaos, so trust me that it would not happen that way over here.Can't tell you the same for any of the neighboring states though, the french are more prone to revolution and rioting.

I realize that Europe is alot smaller than the ConUS, but it is also more densly popoulated.The problems would the same happen over Europe would be well, more complex. But then again, Nitro had a point. You'd need a missile, and nobody in their right mind would risk a nuclear war. And since most of Europe is in the Nato, an attack in Europe would mean the US had to help. The same is true vice versa. An attack on the US would mean Nato memberstates had to help right away. So you are not alone if it happens, don't build a bunker underneath your house just yet.

Katrina is a good example, but not completely applicable. It was a horrible situation for the people and they went sort of Lord of the flies on each other because they were trapped, weren't they? It was an island situation. If all electronics would fail, people would not be trapped by filthy water, without enough supplies and no possible access to any, and be forced to let out the savage beast or die. I am really not sure the same would happen rapidly in cities - but lets hope that none of us finds out.

I think that part of American society stems from the Revolutionary War.  In a brief concise statement, the English colonists weren't going to put down their arms (guns) for anyone, including the government, and that laid the foundation to the way we Americans have the ability to buy and use weapons today.

Cause I SAID it won't. And I'm stomping my foot.

I've requested the book from the library . .thanks for the recommendation.

Didnt you ever watch James Bond: Golden Eye? The one with Peirce Brosnan and the driving the tank through Moscow and the EMP blasts etc etc?

Anyway, in case you didnt see it, the Russians had been experimenting with EMP blasts, and so put a bunch of nuclear warheads above what appeared to be communication satelites. Then they were detonated, the explosion didnt reach the ground but the EMP did and wiped out all sorts of tech in a remote part of Russia then it all became fantasy.

There was another movie... Space Cowboys i think it was called... the Russians built a 'communications satelite' filled it with 12 or so multi-warhead ICBM's and put it in space during the cold war. Then nuclear war didnt ensue and the Russian economy collapsed and everyone forgot about the satelite. Then, somehow, it was damaged and became active, so the russians went to the americans and asked for help repairing it. and thats how the americans found out.

Also, there have been a number of other books and things talking about EMP attacks. There was a weird micro series in Australia called Afterworld (im sure it aired in the US as well). it was basically 5 minute episodes that aired 3 times a day and you had to get all the info you could and try to guess the ending. what happened was one day all technology (on the planet, as far as we know) stops working, and like 90% of the earths population just diappears (im not sure if it was 90% of the people on earth or just the US we didnt find out before i stopped watching)

There is a really good book called Sunstorm by Stephen Baxter and Arthur C Clark. Its about a massive coronal ejection (solar flare) that shoots all kinds of nasty light, heat, radiation and whatever else right at us (Earth). It started with a massive EMP that shorted out most systems on the face of the earth (the face that was facing the sun at the time). then scientists learned it would happen again in 5 years but 100 times worse, and if they didnt do something to stop it the earth would be made uninhabitable. and the funny thing is that the flare was caused by an advanced race of aliens that believe that all energy in existence is finite, and will eventually run out at which point life and the universe will cease to be, so they are trying to stave off the inevitable by being super energy effecient, and policing other lifeforms to do the same. so when a race like humans come along and waste energy on weapons of war and space exploration and microwaveable popcorn, they try to eradicate us, using, funnily enough, the sun.

so this super energy conservative race tries to wipe out a reckless energy consuming species, by expelling enough energy to destroy a planet... ironic huh?

anyway, i wont go into the story more, because its too good a read to be ruined by explaining, but its DEFINITLY worth looking into.

Questioning the validity of the 2nd amendment and having an academic debate about it, which include all different positions there are - pro and con, does not automatically mean changing the constitution. It seems that even talking about it (having a neutral debate) is already a sacrilege to some - and that is just nuts. I have discovered this entrenchment in certain political oppinions on numerous occasions, and it is rather primitive if you ask me. You should always be able to have an argument about anything in a neutral and polite tone. Chanting paranoid slogans about corrupt governments and taking away freedom or paranoid militias and redneck uneducated republicans is seldom very productive.

Nope, have to disagree on that one. It should not be impossible to have a neutral debate about a political issue, no less. lol it is a wonder that your political system works at all if everybody that is emotionally involved is automatically excused from acting rationally.

I would not say impossible, rather, it is very unlikely.

Well, in actually being in America, I wouldn't say it "works," it is simply what we have.  (That of course is my own opinion.)  In fact, I think it has been our downfall as Americans that we can't, or simply wont, think outside of our emotions.  That is how our political games are played, all candidates attempting to play on the emotions of voters, and that has been what has caused our extreme polarity.  For example, "The other side is EVIL because they believe in ABORTION, and abortion is MURDER of little INNOCENT BABIES!"  What part of that doesn't play on the emotions, for both sides?