He never said he was not a Christian, he said that we're not a Christian nation. To me that sounds like a Christian who knows his facts. We're not a Christian nation, we're a multi-cultural, multi-religion/non-religion nation.

He can keep his change.  I don't want it. 

That's what I'm saying.  This sounds not like how a Christian is to act.  I'm not sure what Obama is (he appears confused himself) or where his faith is leading him.  It's not Christian I can tell you that.  There's not one thing he has said or acted upon that shows he is a Christian.  Anyone can call themselves a Christian.  It's another matter to show evidence of it.  There's not a court of Christian law that could convict Obama as a Christian. 

which facts?     The facts this nation was grounded on or the new and improved facts we are now operating on? 

Christian?  What are you basing that on?  What makes him a Christian?  He doesn't attend church.  He doesn't know his bible.  He supports abortion (killing of life) among other non-Christian beliefs.  Every chance he gets he disowns Christians or their beliefs.  He's alot like Oprah. 

Did you know what he said in France?  Did you hear him diss his own country?  He said this:

"In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world.  Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive."

Can you imagine?  This is OUR PRESIDENT?   Did you hear him denigrating the U.S?  Why didn't he focus on something positive instead of insulting all Americans.  He made us appear weak and small in the yes of the world when he said that. 

Aren't you insulted?  I am! 

I'm on record here and elsewhere as saying repeatedly BEFORE the election (warning) that Obama is running for world leader, not President of the US of A. 

His actions lately have been bearing this out. 

It's one thing to admit fault, it's another to go out there telling other people how stupid you are. I admit to my mistakes, but I don't tell people who stupid I am for making mistakes. Obama was not voted in to apologize to the world for us.

Speaking of, since I believe the topic of faults and such was mentioned in this threa. Since you want people to admit faults of Obama, instead of propping him up. Then lets make a deal: I'll make my criticism of Obama as well as Democrats, more vocal, if you'll start giving the occasional praise toward him and Democrats (as well as criticizign Republicans).

Deal?

~Alderic

I bet any Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist or other non-Christian Americans would be glad to know their president doesn't think the US is a christian nation.

But equally, no effect at all. Saying the US isn't exclusively Christian conflicts with a common misconception outside the US. It likely gave his speech a bit of extra weight in Turkey.

It's also a fact that many Christians back in the US forget and should remember, so it seems to have the potential to achieve two aims for the price of one.

Not bad if it works, and if it doesn't it really only annoys the deluded.

if the usa was a monarchy, a variety of other -archies, a dictatorship or a theocracy, its president's actions and decisions might well be dictated by his faith and those who believed otherwise would certainly be affected by his religion.  since it's not any of those, but a secular nation composed of persons of all faiths as well as no faith, our president--whomever he may be--is obliged to act in comformance with the constitution and operate as both head of the executive branch and commander-in-chief of the military forces.  the executive branch is primarily charged with enforcing the nation's laws. 

anyone who has a problem acting in accordance with the law rather than dictates of his personal spiritual belief or affiliation shouldn't aspire to that office. 

believe in what you know rather than what you hear applies particularly well to the case of those who continually assert america was founder by christians on the basis of judeo-christian (whatever the hell that's supposed to be) principals. our system of law is based on roman law and those most responsible for instituting our constitutional government were, at most, nominally christian and included one former president who issued a proclamation officially stating the us was not a christian nation.

I just love it when everyone jumps on the bandwagon with the whole separation of church and state thing. 

How many kow that Jefferson had NOTHING to do with the Constitution but came to the U.S. a month after it was finished?  He was in France.  But yet he's the only guy we talk about in the separation of church and state? 

Govenor Morris was the last signer of the Constitution and he was the most active when it came to the Constituion Conventions speaking on the floor 173 times....more than any other founder....yet no one has heard of him today.   Ask around.

Ask how many people have heard of Morris and how many have heard of Jefferson.  I'm telling ya, there's a reason for this.  There's a reason why most can only point out two signers in the famous Declaration of Independence Painting made to celebrate the moment (Franklin & Jefferson) and know next to nothing on any of the other signers. 

Morris wrote most of the words of the Constituion.  It was basically his document.  He also wrote two commentaries on the Constitution.  He said:

"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals, therefore education should teach the precepts of religion and mankind's duties towards God." 

What does he know?   Only that he made a very significant impact in our country, that's all. 

 Doesn't it make sense that Govenor Morris would know the intent of the Constitution?  Then why do we take Jefferson's 8 word comment in a letter of all things and run with it? 

Answer?  Because we are being led in a very certain direction that our founding fathers had no intention.  Our kids are being brainwashed with revisionist history for a purpose and a plan. 

none of which are "god" btw. 

it's more than just the constitution.

consider our flag.

what emblem is found on flags of christian nations that's missing from ours?

btw it was president john adams who signed the treaty of tripoli after having sent it to the senate for ratification. it was read aloud on the senate floor, each senator was presented a printed copy and it was unanimously approved--one of 3 unanimous results of the first 339 matter put to the senate for vote--and was thereafter reprinted in the philadelphia papers without any recorded negative reaction by the citizenry.

article 11 reads as follows:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

signing date in the us was june 1797.  bear in mind many of the founders were not only still alive but active in government. which leads me to believe your first sentence deliberate (if fantasy-driven) fabrication.

you couldn't be more correct in your follow-up sentence.  our kids are being brainwashed by dominionists such as yourself.

I agree, don't speak there if you don't like the decor, or think it would offend someone. Stick to public places. MLK didn't cover up the Lincoln memorial (and anyone that suggests that isn't a hallowed place needs go visit and get their patriotism meter readjusted).

Really?   You have something to back this up Mason?  I'm all for historical facts.  Go ahead.  Show me.  Put your facts on the table for me to see.  Do you know when the Constitution was ratified?  Where was Jefferson?  How much did he write on this?  How about NOTHING!  He had nothing to do with the Constitution other than to support it.  He disqualified himself. 

Minister to France

Being a Christian nation and running a theocracy are two diff things.  The FF did not wish to have any religion as a state religion.  That's what Jefferson meant by Separation of Church and State.  They came out of that background and set this country up to have "freedom of religion" not "from religion." 

But that still doesn't negate the fact that this country and its founders wished to have a Christian influence in this new world and all their laws and mandates were based on the Holy Bible. 

Morris was the one who did the physical writing, but those who were involved and contributed to the constitution included John Dickinson, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, Edmund Randolph, James Madison, Roger Sherman, James Wilson, and George Wythe. No single person was the sole author. Twelve of the thirteen states sent delegates to the Constitutional Convention to revise the Articles of Confederation and the entire convention worked on it.

Jefferson's work contributed greatly to the project, as did the work of many others. They all deserve credit for the final work.