Oh please.  Were you around with Carter?  The problem with some people is they don't take the time to see beyond "blaming Bush".  Who were the people lining their pockets with money from Fannie May?  Who were the peopel pressuring companies to give mortgages to people who couldn't afford them?

That is irrelevant.  Anyone is free to participate, and just because they have a certain badge doesn't change the discussion. 

My original post here was not to complain about free speech being violated, far from it.  My point was that some conservative bloggers are afraid to "speak up" because of fear of retribution from the "tolderant" left.

Despite the fact that you're presenting a 12 year old's taunt, I'll respond...

Not only do I have a real job (meaning I make money and pay taxes, etc.), I am currently my own boss and have made and lost millions, like most businessmen.

But more to your point, I have built companies with from 60-1200 employees with valuations (by outside investment) of from $40-750 million.  So I understand the tax issues as an employee, a self-employed businessman, an entrepreneur, as well as having been the head of small LLCs and larger S and C Corps.  And I've built these companies, one after another, through their rises and their falls, over the past 20 years. 

And, as an employee or as an employer, I'll take the Clinton boom years over the Bush bust years any day of the week. 

I've been fortunate to be involved in high value industries where the cost of benefits like health care are chump change compared to the 6+ figure salaries of the people who have worked for me.  But many of my fellow small businessmen are not as fortunate.  They have had to lay off employees to meet payroll due the massive increases in health care premiums for what is obviously shittier and shittier coverage year after year.  And we, as employees and employers are NOT better off for these increases...at all.  I have to buy gold plan/executive level coverage for my people just to have the same BASE LEVEL CARE that I had as an employee 20 years ago...Hell, as a union employee TEN years ago!

I find this shameful and insane in the world's wealthiest nation.

And an extra percent increase or decrease in my taxes, or the taxes on my companies, is not going to break my bank, period.  But if it makes a difference in restoring America's economic engine, the Middle Class, to health, I'm all for it.

"Trickle down" didn't work.  The trickles were siphoned offshore, along with our manufacturing base jobs. And our country is dangerously close to becoming a purely-service driven economy.  Historically speaking, no empire in the history of man has lasted long after that shift occurs.

Like the Chinese, I'm watching the long game here.  They are using our short-sighted, quarterly dividend driven selfish "get it all while you can and screw those who come after me" attitudes against us. 

We need to start thinking as a NATION again, not as a collection of partisan self-interested grafters and lobbyist flacks.

I do not get from the drift of your responses that you are not partisan.  On the contrary, it seems that you think all the graftersand lobbyist are Republicans or Bush devotees.  I do not recall any strong condemnation of a Democrat or perhaps I missed it.

100% agreement!

Certainly respect for a person is something that must be earned, while I do respect the rights of all as members of society. But therein lies the rub. There is a constant push and pull about what is a "right" and who shall determine same.  Do I have a right to own a gun?  Do I have a right to have health care? Do I have a right to own a home? Do I have a right to expect others to pay for my protection from terrorists? Do I have a right to have an abortion?

It is in the details that things get a bit dicey.

You don't see the parallel? Inconvenient? The concern re retribution or intolerance is valid in both cases. I don't understand why it isn't apparant to you.

How can one tell where anything is coming from (posts)? The principle that the badge appears from one site and not the other strengthens my opinion that a wall needs to exist instead of the beeding back and forth of posts...or a header that informs the reader where the post comes from. Also, if it doesn't appear in JU, there must be a way to have it "appear" and "disappear" in WC. This is a fair argument. Fair means equals discussing things and not having concerns about retribution...which is how I perceive I.D."s original post.

Lantec, this was not a 'personal' thing:  It has to do with "equal footing" and "power" concerns. I believe you are scrupulously fair and whether we agree or agree to disagree I have the utmost respect for you.

I am so pleased that we always find a commonn ground Doc! Have a great day!

Me too Ken...you already know how I feel about you!

Excuse me, but wasn't it you that laughed at Brad for paying a 35% tax rate and told him that he needed to get a high powered tax advisor that he probbaly couldn't find in Michigan.  You were quite proud about paying lesss than him and now you put some one down for taking a free cut giveaway?  Strange how your imput seems contrary to your actions.

Oh politicians of all colors are grafters, without a doubt.  However, see my notes above for who I must, in good conscience, hold accountable for the current state of affairs we find ourselves in.

I blame REAL conservatives for not standing up to Bush when he hijacked the party of "no nation building" and "fiscal conservatism" and turned into their worst "liberal" nightmare.  They've started jumping ship now...like 5 years too late.

I blame Democrats for lacking the backbone to call Bush a LIAR in 2004, when we all already knew it.

I blame Pelosi for not actively SHOWING Americans why they've been unable to recall the Iraq war graft, due to Bush's veto power and not having veto-proof majorities in the senate and house.

I blame Clinton for not keeping it in his pants.  He gave hypocrites like Bush the "in" they needed to lie their way into office.

I blame Phil Gramm for using Clinton's desire to see more home ownership to open these floodgates in 1999.

I blame Greenspan for naively believing that men whose entire lives are about gambling and greed could be trusted to keep the interests of the nation as a whole in their hearts.  200 years of laws and regulations came about because it is a truth that such men cannot be trusted completely.

I blame the Supreme Court for intervening in 2000, when we needed to just wait and count...no matter who won.  Their actions delegitimized our entire electoral process and removed forever the perceived infallibility of the Judicial branch.

I blame every state and local official who approved non-paper trail electronic balloting just to save a few dollars on paper - opening the possibility for voter fraud on a massive scale.

I blame everyone who voted for Bush in 2004. You KNEW he lied in 2000 to get the job and then did everything he said he wouldn't once in office and yet you still bought his bullshit malarkey out of FEAR - fear that he placed there in the first place!

I blame states like Iowa who pre-filter our most interesting and capable candidates out of the electoral process leaving us to vote year after year between a choice of two nigh-dufus milquetoast candidates for high office.  Kerry, Gore, Bush (both), McCain?!   Really?!  These are the best men to lead the greatest nation on Earth?!  Puh-lease.

I blame Ted Turner for turning the fourth estate into a ratings driven, corporate advertising whore, which thereby lost the ability to provide the country's much needed check and balance on the powerful.  Fear sells air time and thereby ad dollars, so the fourth estate suddenly served the same masters as the politicians and the critical thinking of the vast majority of the American population went down the shitter as a result.  It's good to see some of that coming back, but the root cause remains.

I blame Bush for letting his own ego believe it when his handlers said he was qualified to be President.  He was, and always has been, a smiling affable face man for Dick Cheney.  No one would pick Cheney as a running mate if it wasn't the only way he'd be allowed to win the White House (via the money, always follow the money).  The same goes for Palin.  She's not qualified, everyone knows it, and if McCain won and didn't tow the line, she'd be the proxy President in a heartbeat.  And who do you think she'd be getting her "wise counsel" from?  Rove, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and, as always, lurking in the background of ALL of this for 30 years...George Herbert Walker Bush.

I blame all Americans for letting a tragic, yet dramatic, terrorist attack shut us down emotionally in FEAR, even though our NATION was NEVER in jeopardy (not like PEARL HARBOR or the war of 1812, when the British burned down Washington D.C.!), and none of the fearful were ever personally in jeopardy.  Terrorism is about TERROR, and our leaders let them succeed by feeding us fear - the politician's traditional road to power.  During the intifada, the Israelis were suffering a 9-11 level loss of life (as a percentage of population) every friggin THREE MONTHS.  And for decades, the British lived in daily, REAL fear of IRA bombings.  Yet, we, the greatest and most powerful nation on Earth, cowered in fear...and the criminals responsible have STILL not been brought to JUSTICE - because there are too many cronies profiting on the fictitious "war on terror".

And I blame the neocons for taking advantage of and feeding that fear to serve their own self-destructive national agenda - undoing 200 years of moral certitude that made our nation a shining beacon of prosperity and freedom.  They are the true TERRORists, having used your fear to further their own political agenda.

I've never been afraid of Osama bin Laden.  He's just yet another mentally ill, disenfranchised asshat.  They've been around for hundreds of thousands of years and will be with us until the end of time.

But what I am afraid of is that Obama may not be able to undo all the damage that's been done.  He will come into office with unlimited executive power...granted Bush to himself via unprecedented executive signing statements.  Can Obama, given the greatest of temptations, at the helm of the most powerful nation in the history of mankind, with a monumental mandate from the people...will he return that power to the people, via upholding the checks and balances intended by the Constitution of the United States?!

I hope that he has the moral certitude and intellectualism to do just that.

And, yeah, I'm afraid some ignorant white trash Nazi skinhead is going to shoot him. 

The Wall Streeters are buying and paying for everyone in office via lobbying.  They are an equal opportunity corruptor and have been investing to cover their ass (which they knew was due to be burned this year or next) for quite some time now.

No one raised the issue then, Hankers because the irony in this post made me see it. I'm 61 and pretty set in my ways, but none of them involve hypocracy, I hope. I don't like participating in posts with Moderator/Wizops (whatever) because of the same reason that I.D. raised in his original posting.

It is inherently unfair that Moderators participate with that badge of authority when they are not Moderating that particular thread. Certainly their comments aren't "fair and balanced" because they are advocating one point of view or another. The first few times I ran into it I found it quite confusing.

If this inequity isn't apparant to you, ask yourself this question, "How many Police Officers do I see wearing Obama or McCain Campaign buttons while they're  walking a beat?".

You are right, we have had redistribution of wealth, and it has royally screwed us....why would you want more? 

Once again, it's irrelevant.  Comparing forum moderators to police is just ridiculous.  As I said, anyone is free to participate and their forum badge doesn't persuade the post one way or another.