Exactly, great point!  Faith, having it, no matter what form or shape it comes in, that is the point. Without it, so many of us would give up on our lives, and when someone comes to that point, I hope they can reach within themselves to find that faith, to reach out, beyond pride, to get the help they need.

I think we all have experienced some type of or lack of having at one point or another, unless you're super rich of course!

Ted, can you enlighten me as to what you mean?  I tell my kids to give what they can, when they can, especially to someone who needs it. They are aware also of what it means to tithe.  When we were regular members of a church, they understood what it is and why.  For me (and I'm not saying it isn't for anyone) it wasn't about what I would get back from God, it was from the heart what I could afford.  They learn about the needs of others and that there are organizations out there that do good, that really helps those in need.  They first must start with themselves, and each other, to understnd what it means to give freely and willingly.  This part is a learning curve with my two youngest right now who are in the "me, me, and mine only" stage of their lives.  They know better, but there are times when they don't do it.

If that's what works for you, great!  But frankly, I just don't buy it.  How much of the money that it tithed actually goes to helping others and how much of it is for administration of the church?  If you are forgoing eating dinner or adequately feeding your children (I'm not sure that popcorn & peanut butter is what I would call an adequate meal, but that might be a personal preference) so that you can help the church buy a new computer/buiding/give the preacher a raise-- I dont see that as something to brag about. 

Also, in KFC's earlier example, she said her kids were getting free lunches (paid for by taxpayers) -- but the $800 she gave to the church surely would have been sufficient for lunches for at least half of the year, if not more.  So because you decided to give to your church instead of giving to your family you had to take resources from elsewhere -- while I don't begrudge anyone needed a boost up -- I do begrudge someone telling me that there is something "wrong with my heart" if I am not tithing when they are collecting government benefits. 

Giving should be between you and God -- and no one should be standing in judgement of what you are able to give and what you aren't.  Yes, it is important to teach your children about faith and sacrifice -- but there are plently of ways to sacrifice for God that don't involve cash. 

I'm sorry if I am being overly harsh -- but I find the topic of tithing to be a way for people to look down their noses at others who they don't think are "giving" enough.  Frankly, it's total BS.

If someone is supporting a family on $8,000/yr, 10% makes a HUGE difference.  The less income you have, the more you NEED all of it.  There's just no padding. 

I think that also assumes that the church is going to put the $ to better use than the struggling family would.  I doubt that's typically the case.

Since when are elders or church leadership God?

All I keep hearing from you is that God won't provide for you, and you know that's not true.  We need to hold onto God's promises, not money.

I apologize, and you're right - a disagreement on doctrine doesn't make one not a Christian.  Neither does anything else except not believing in Jesus and accepting his sacrifice for us, right?

I meant to say, 'if it is not in your heart to tithe' instead of 'give'.  And I wasn't questioning your heart.  I've never seen you give or tithe, or not give or tithe.  Even if I saw you do one or the other, I wouldn't question what was in your heart, because God knows what's going on.  That's his job.  I'm just saying that if anyone feels they should not tithe for whatever reason, or would give grudgingly out of guilt, don't do it.  It's not supposed to feel bad to give.

They didn't tell me to tithe.  They told me why tithing is important.  God says that everything you have is His, but to give 10% to the local storehouse (church) as a representation of that whole, leaving us with stewardship of the other 90%.  So tithing, to me, is obeying God by giving to the church.

I just want to clarify -- you aren't giving the money to God.  You are giving it to a church.  The church and God are not the same thing. 

And, I think we are going to have to agree to disagree, but if I'm making $8K a year (or $667/month), giving $67 to the church is an awful lot.  You certainly would have been able to pack lunches for your three boys with that kind of extra cash. 

But this isn't tithing -- as Jythier has defined it.  It's "just" giving.  Are you saying they are the same?  So as long as 10% of my income goes to other causes, it's fine?  It seems to me that this is a completely different arguement than we've been previously having.

When you come right down to it, it's all relative whether you make $8,000 or 800,000.   In all actuality I believe, it's the ones who are barely scraping by who give the most.  It seems as tho the more you make the more you hang onto what you have and the more you spend and want.  Scripture bears this out as Christ said "it's easier for a camel to go thru an eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven."  That's why you see the poor widow who give her last two pennies yet see the rich young ruler walk away because he had many possessions.   What a contrast, not unlike what we see today. 

In my church back home they have set aside ten thousand dollars to help the struggling in the church to pay this coming winter's heating bills.  There is no one who goes without in our church.  We take care of our own by doing all sorts of things to make this happen. 

We also pledged last I knew (it may be more now) 10% of our incoming funds to go back out to the Missionaries we support.  Every year as we grew both in body and money we would look for another missionary to support out in the mission field.   Last I knew we had one family in Brazil, One in Italy, one in Poland, and one in Kiev and another I'm not sure where exactly.  We also do alot in Hondorus supporting a team who goes there yearly to do dental work for the poorest of the poor who line up for miles with teeth that need to be pulled and taken care of.  Basically all our team does is pull teeth and give out toothpaste and toothbrushes.......loads of them.. 

So when your money goes to a good church body, there is much use for it to support the cause of Christ.  In our church we had only two pastors on the payroll and they were not paid more than 44K either of them for fulltime work. 

It's good to be good stewards of your money and make sure it's going to a god cause, but it's an excuse if you say you need it more than those in Hondorus (or the like)  who live in squalor and have never in their life  seen a dentist before.  Imagine being a young mother of young kids and having all your teeth pulled out with only novacain and then watching your kids have theirs pulled out as well.  Now imagine the big toothless smiies.  They are more appreciative than anybody you have ever seen and actually jump for joy at the thought that they no longer have pain....or teeth for that matter.  To them, they just won the lottery.   

 I wouldn't feel guilty giving my kids popcorn or peanut butter or mac n'cheese if I have to when I think of those out there who eat dirt and leaves and never in their life have seen a real honest to goodness toilet. 

I agree!

But He still provides.

You can't really give it to God (I think I've called it 'giving to God' in this thread or the other thread and that's wrong) because it's already God's.  You are simply allocating the only 10% of God's money that he gave you specific direction on to the correct place.  The rest of it is left to your discretion.

I feel like we're just going in circles, so I'm not going to further this discussion, as I would only be repeating myself again and you would probably just repeat yourself again too.

It says the local storehouse, which is pretty vague.  But I say it means the local church, and since I am always right, you better get back in line!

hahahaha ok, you've got me a-shakin' in my sandals! 

you must be speaking of Malachi?  Again, this was a Jewish concept never given to the Christians in the NT although the principle to give is for both Jew and Gentile. 

of course God can use whatever means he wants to make sure you're provided for whether that means a doorbell ring with a meal from a neighbor or free lunches from the government.  He says he puts rulers in their positions and the government is under his control to begin with.  God works all things good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose.

You seem to have an issue with the free lunches.  Ok, going back to the math..........making $8,000 in taxable income qualified a family back then (like mine) for free lunches.  If I decided to give God a portion of that money whether it be  $200$400 or $800 or whatever it doesn't make me any less eligible before or after.  We were very thankful for the kids free lunches back then and only used that service for maybe three or four years or so until our business got running.  Later on we gave back the $500 to the church when we could afford to do so many years later.  We never forgot that. 

I never said to "give more than you can afford."  What I did say is that everyone regardless of income (all is relative) can give 10 cents on the dollar to God and not be harmed.  And instead, can be very blessed.  God says the storehouse will be open to you.....story after story after  tesimony after testimony  have borne this out. 

You are speaking of having a clenched tight fist, holding tightly to everything you have because you deem yourself as more worthy than the next guy.  I'm saying, open your clenched fist and by doing so, having your hand open giving to God also allows God to give back to you in that same opened hand.  Open to overflowing blessings from above. 

oh please.  I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't?  And you're very quick to assume what we are saying is untrue even though we have first hand knowledge of experiencing it to be true.

 First of all I'm speaking in general terms only telling you what my church does back home in giving us opportunities to give of our time and treasure .  I gave you no indication what I give and don't give other than the fact I support a child from World Vision.  I never said what I do or don't do for the team that travels to Hondorus.  You have no idea what I do or don't do or how much I give or don't give.  It's not your business to know.   

I'm not judging anyone and find you are taking this all too personally. That I can't help other than to think you must be convicted here about all this.   That's not a bad thing btw.   I also give anonymously and think that's a good way to give.  So no disagreement there.   

This is just a discussion  group, not a judgment hall. 

Giving starts with the heart and is between you and God period. 

I checked out the widow's gift site.  Jesus did not command them to give it back to her.  Jesus did not take the coins out of the box and hand them back to her.  If he had, that may have been the point.

I don't care who you are or what your income level happens to be... 10% is a significant amount.

So what about all those that God doesn't provide for?  How do they fit into your worldview?