Respect and Acceptance on JU » Forum Post by CharlesCS

are never really given a chance to become part of this community, they are labeled as “annoying” or something and regardless of what they do to change

Groups of people take on characteristics similar to individuals. While specific people within the group all deviate in certain respects, the group itself tends to take on an identifiable, individual character. (For example, think of "national characters:" the French are snobs, the Germans are militaristic and have no sense of humor, et cetera.) One way to classify people (and thus groups which have taken on a particular character) is by the permanence of their reaction.

* Some people have to have something proven to them every time
* Some people make up their mind and never change the opinion
* Some people make up their mind but can change their opinion if given a lot of contrary evidence.

(For the sake of simplification since this is just a comment, I'll leave it at those three categories.)

As a whole, JU tends toward the second of those. In general, it makes its mind up quickly and holds to it. (Yes, there are always exceptions, but if you want to track the behavior the vast majority of the time, that's the JU zeitgeist as far as that goes.)

The very thing that gets defended on this site, freedom of speech,

I'd disagree with that. If you bring up "freedom of speech," what you are most likely to get is, "Freedom of speech only applies to the government. There is no right to freedom of speech here or in any other private setting!" That's the main current, the JU zeitgeist (again).

Nope, you won't find a lot of defending of freedom of speech on this site. (And while the JU zeitgeist is technically correct, I have a big problem with it.)

childish arguments ranging from insults, to name calling, to witty replies

You lump "witty replies" with childish arguments, insults, and name calling?

Okay, if you insist.

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As a whole, JU tends toward the second of those. In general, it makes its mind up quickly and holds to it.

I am not sure I agree with that completely. (Although, you did say "tends")

It seems like some of the most beloved of JU posters have a rough start, a big blow out, and then when everyone comes to their senses, that person is welcomed with open arms. I have seen that scenario play out again and again.

Charles: You say you don't care, but posting an entire article on this smacks of care, haha.

My advice for you:

A) Stop being a douche.

or

Continue being a douche and stop caring whether you are in the "in crowd" or not.

It's like high school. The more you care what other people think, the more lame you seem.

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Groups of people take on characteristics similar to individuals. While specific people within the group all deviate in certain respects, the group itself tends to take on an identifiable, individual character. (For example, think of "national characters:" the French are snobs, the Germans are militaristic and have no sense of humor, et cetera.) One way to classify people (and thus groups which have taken on a particular character) is by the permanence of their reaction. * Some people have to have something proven to them every time * Some people make up their mind and never change the opinion * Some people make up their mind but can change their opinion if given a lot of contrary evidence. (For the sake of simplification since this is just a comment, I'll leave it at those three categories.) As a whole, JU tends toward the second of those. In general, it makes its mind up quickly and holds to it. (Yes, there are always exceptions, but if you want to track the behavior the vast majority of the time, that's the JU zeitgeist as far as that goes.)

I like this, makes perfect sense.

I'd disagree with that. If you bring up "freedom of speech," what you are most likely to get is, "Freedom of speech only applies to the government. There is no right to freedom of speech here or in any other private setting!" That's the main current, the JU zeitgeist (again). Nope, you won't find a lot of defending of freedom of speech on this site. (And while the JU zeitgeist is technically correct, I have a big problem with it.)

Just in case, i wasnt necessarily speaking of the site but the people in it. They decry how they have the write to speak to their hearts content yet love taking that same ability away from those they dont like or disagree with.

You lump "witty replies" with childish arguments, insults, and name calling? Okay, if you insist.

Well witty only when being insulting.

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Charles: You say you don't care, but posting an entire article on this smacks of care, haha.

I wrote the article because I wanted to point out what I see as respect on JU, not by the admins or owners, but the people who make the community. I really don't care anymore how some here feel about me. I would rather we got along and not thought of each other in insulting manners but I can not change other peoples minds so I adapt.

My advice for you: A) Stop being a douche.

Please explain how I am being a douche. Since the first time we crossed words you have had nothing but dislike towards me and I have never understood why. If we gonna judge people within the first minute of getting to know them then maybe you should stop being a douche as well. Not once have you ever said anything remotely nice to me as if I did something very terrible to you.

or

Continue being a douche and stop caring whether you are in the "in crowd" or not. It's like high school. The more you care what other people think, the more lame you seem.

As I said, I could care less if I am part of the "in crowd" or not. I did want that when i first came here but that's not important anymore. I just like being on JU and reading peoples opinions and posting my own. BTW, most here are adults, some with children. This is not high school anymore but if that is how you see it then I can understand all the childish attitudes around here. Maybe some here need to grow up a little.

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Give me specifics. Explain what is it about me that brings such dislike. I can't help but being curious. There's nothing worse to me than not knowing something I am very curious to know. Dont be shy, spill the beans. Tell little ol me why I annoy you. Use this article to let it all out.

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How do I find you a douche? Let me count the ways...

Seriously, though, Charles, I don't know how to quantify it. Sometimes you're ok, sometimes you bug the hell out of me.

I would have to think about it quite deeply to give you a detailed accounting. Which I might do later since I am awake and everyone else in my house is asleep. Let me think on it.

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That pretty much describes the majority of writers on JU.

LOL, Asaxy, you're too nice.

Humanity doesn't enter into it for me. Haha. I like most of the JU regs. Some I adore completely. There are a few strays here and there that it pains me to even considering being nice to because their personalities are so annoying (and yes, I have a VERY annoying personality, haha, I can't help some people are nice to me! I could be Charles/Erathoniel/Lucas but for the grace of the JU community's good will!).

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cactoblasta

Join Date 04/2004

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I'm not your biggest fan, but so far as I can recall I think it's based on the length of your paragraphs rather than anything else, so that's hardly set in stone. In this article your usage of 'I' is a bit offputting, but nothing serious. Of course, I'm a bit fickle when it comes to internet people. Consistency in reaction is for the dead and the dead at heart.

In response to your actual article, I don't think there is some JU force of nature which dictates how things work. When I joined the site years ago I called LW (even then a very popular JUer) a Klansman (klanswoman?) if I remember correctly. I think we get along fairly well now, but I don't think anyone would have said we were friendly back then. Quite the opposite. It took a long time before I could see things from her perspective and gain a better understanding of where she stood and what shapes her, and I imagine it was much the same for her.

The key to getting on well in JU, so far as I can tell, is to never take it personally and never take it seriously. If someone cracks the shits with you, deal with it and move on. Don't write a post bemoaning your isolation. Laugh it off, or, if you're particularly good, figure out what's accurate and whether it's worth changing your style and then laugh it off.

At various stages I've swapped questions about relative intelligence and insults with Moderateman, Bakerstreet, Draginol, LW and nearly everyone else who's been influential about one thing or another. I think most of us here secretly like a bit of a barney every once in a while. The key to not being considered a prat by most is just to let it go. When you feel too hard about a subject, let it go. When you really start to take the back and forth personally, let it go. Be the leaf in the wind, or Jesus, or whatever your religion demands.

That's the key to JU love. You're not going to like everyone, but if you're reasonable, chances are you'll find someone or other you like.

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but so far as I can recall I think it's based on the length of your paragraphs rather than anything else

This is something you really should hear Charles. Cut your paragraphs down in size. Seriously. Yeah I know if the topic sentence covers the info, it should technically be in the same paragraph...but I think breaking that rule to save our eyes will carry you a long way.

I personally don't have a problem with you, but do cringe when you talk about how you're not scared of LW.

Let it go. LW doesn't seem to have a hard on for ya Charles. But every time you mention her name, you should know by now, she's not gonna just ignore it.

When I first came to JU, I was a little intimidated by the "off" JU relationships. Meaning, it seemed at first glance as if most of the people here knew each other in real life. It was like crashing a party.

So I found someone whose writing style "clicked" with me and who seemed ok about accepting the new guy and spent a lot of time on her blog getting a real feel for the place. I was right. She did accept new people on her blog, heck even WELCOMES them.

That may not work for everyone, but since I've never lived anywhere for more than 5 years in my life, I've been the new gal a lot and find taking bite size pieces is better than just jumping into the middle of people and saying "HERE I AM! LUCKY YOU! OH AND HERE IS MY OPINION! WOOT." (Cuz I've done that too and like you wondered...WHAT? What happened?" (Of course that was many many years ago.)

Don't know what to tell you except..JUST BLOG. Take the focus off the relationships on here and just write. You may find you get a following.

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How do I find you a douche? Let me count the ways...

Seriously, though, Charles, I don't know how to quantify it. Sometimes you're ok, sometimes you bug the hell out of me.

I would have to think about it quite deeply to give you a detailed accounting. Which I might do later since I am awake and everyone else in my house is asleep. Let me think on it.

Wow, I find it hard to believe I have been that bad that you need time to think about the things I've done to you. You people are much harsher than I first thought.

That pretty much describes the majority of writers on JU. We're human, after all, and subject to our moods, irrationalities, and petty differences. I guess what makes the difference for me is what I choose to do with the opinion I choose while in a "mood."

Thank you, my point exactly.

LOL, Asaxy, you're too nice.

Humanity doesn't enter into it for me. Haha. I like most of the JU regs. Some I adore completely. There are a few strays here and there that it pains me to even considering being nice to because their personalities are so annoying (and yes, I have a VERY annoying personality, haha, I can't help some people are nice to me! I could be Charles/Erathoniel/Lucas but for the grace of the JU community's good will!).

Yes, she is very nice (kinda wonder why you make it seem that this is a bad thing) but she is also correct.

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I'm not your biggest fan, but so far as I can recall I think it's based on the length of your paragraphs rather than anything else, so that's hardly set in stone. In this article your usage of 'I' is a bit offputting, but nothing serious. Of course, I'm a bit fickle when it comes to internet people. Consistency in reaction is for the dead and the dead at heart.

Thanks for your reply cacto. I agree I have issues with posting short replies. I have mentioned it many times before. I can't help but using so many words to make a point. I guess my chatterbox personality extends to my typing. I talk a lot, it's just who I am. I never figured such a thing would make people disgusted to see my name. Annoying is one thing, some here are as annoying as I am and they even admit it, but to the point of constant insults almost every time I post something?

I know we have not always seen eye to eye either. We have different opinions about many things, but I have never felt the need to insult you at ever turn. I have my opinions and you have yours. I live in the US and as far as I'm concerned you have that right and I won't take it from you. Sure, if I get insulted in some way then I'll fire back. But besides the old cook Gene, I don't insult people right off the back, he earned it after a while. And even then I was nice to him from time to time.

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This is something you really should hear Charles. Cut your paragraphs down in size. Seriously. Yeah I know if the topic sentence covers the info, it should technically be in the same paragraph...but I think breaking that rule to save our eyes will carry you a long way.

I agree and do try to keep it short. Not always easy I guess. I just dont think that is cause for dislike though.

I personally don't have a problem with you, but do cringe when you talk about how you're not scared of LW.

Let it go. LW doesn't seem to have a hard on for ya Charles. But every time you mention her name, you should know by now, she's not gonna just ignore it.

Thank you for your reply Tova. Here's the funny thing. I don't focus on LW. It's she who has the tendency if nit-picking what I say and make fun of it in some insulting way. The few times I have attacked LW was because she was asking for it literally. Her normal attacks like F you and screw you usually accompany her comments. She can never argue without insulting, even during a debate of a topic. Why the woman is so sour is beyond me but I see many here are already use to her. Still she can be very kind to many here yet she constantly treats me like trash, so, I decided to give some back to her.

I don't claim to be an expect at dealing with LW, as some here have tried to make a deal about, but she is use to having people back off when she starts her rants. Well, I am not and she finds that annoying. But i don't care. Not my problem. I don't even have to mention her name for her to start something with me. But let's leave it at that because then she will think I started talking about her again because I can't keep her name out of my mouth.

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At various stages I've swapped questions about relative intelligence and insults with Moderateman, Bakerstreet, Draginol, LW and nearly everyone else who's been influential about one thing or another. I think most of us here secretly like a bit of a barney every once in a while.

I have seen you mature a lot in your responses. NOt your ideas. YOu seem as true today as in the beginning, but now instead of getting petty and insulting, you use logic and reasoning. We will never agree on many things, but I have grown to respect your posts as you address the points, and seldom resort to insults these days.

That being said, I understand Charles point, and disagree somewhat. I understand the clique at JU, and as Brad has said in the past, it is not some creation of JU, but a normal manifestation of a community, cyber or physical. But as with all cliques, they may want to believe they are the end all and be all (I say want as I have no idea of their thinking - just written extension of it), but in truth they are just a part of JU. Not JU itself.

Those that are never accepted come looking for acceptance - or a fight. Those that do not care find their own niche. We have several that have never tried to be "in". And they continue to post and garner responses, albeit from only a part of JU, to this day.

I came because it was a fun place to vent, and wax nostalgic. I have been "in" and "out", and found that it really does not matter what I am when it comes to why I joined. So I stay. Not for acceptance from any clique, but because I can continue to do what I came here for.

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besides the old cook Gene, I don't insult people right off the back, he earned it after a while.

Just for the record, for newbies and lurkers (since I'm the only Gene who has commented here), the "old cook Gene" referenced isn't me, but "Col. Gene."

(Or so I hope!

)

Thank you. Go about your business.

(BTW, did you mean "kook" or "crook" or "coot" or...?)

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Charles,

You have freedom of speech. Nobody's fighting it. Your freedom of speech, however, is not a freedom to walk into my house, sit down on my couch, and spread your opinions. That is, my right to privacy trumps your freedom of speech.

Nobody's censoring your blog. When they blacklist you, they are simply keeping you out of their living room. If they ignore your blog, they're simply limiting your freedom of speech to your blog.

Just stay true to who you are, and don't sweat the petty things.

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I appreciate everyones comments. Gene Nash, I apologize for not being specific about Col gene.

DrGuy,

I was one of those looking for acceptance, now I just wanna be. I like JU and plan on sticking around so long as I am permitted.

LW,

Believe what you want. I did once care because in a way you did seem like a nice person and someone interesting to get along with. But you chose to shove me to the side and compare me to the likes of Lucas, erath and such. I am nothing like them. I may be annoying from time to time but so are many others here, including you. All i wanted was a place to debate, to disagree and maybe from time to time to argue. But I found it disturbing to get nothing but insults for my comments from a few on this site who never even tried to get to know me. They just branded me a loser from the get go and every now and then they would jump in and insult me due to one of my opinions as oppose to simply disagree with me.

And about the telling new people part? I never told erath about how to deal with you. I told him what I believe to be the truth. You do like blacklisting people for silly reasons, we argued this once a long time ago. I told him he should deal with being blacklisted and move on. The irony is you accused me of talking about you but it was him who was talking about you, I merely stated the obvious that he should just grow up and move on. That's your problem, you attack me at every chance even when I say nice things to you as in other articles before. And as usual, you are looking for more arguments with your comments. You can't even comment on here without some kind of insult or poking to start something. Then you claim it is me the one looking to get people started. You know, it's funny, I recall you accusing DrGuy of something similar a while back. But that's not important.

What do you say we stop this nonsense here and now? I'll stay off your back and you stay off mine. We'll stick to commenting on the topics and not insulting each other, even if the topic is about one person or the other. Hows that?

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Gid,

I'm not talking about the site restricting my freedom of speech. I was talking about the people on this site wanting to restrict people from expressing themselves just because what others have to say bothers them in some way by wanting them banned, stripped of their ability to post or simply nagging them till they leave.

I will stay true to myself. I will blog what I feel and think regardless what others have to say. That is why I may be coming off a bit like a jerk to some. I tire of the abuse, of the fear of being banned. I respect so long as I get respect and I will slap back just as hard. No more backing down. Brad himself has no problem expressing his opinions, even if it means losing a customer, because he refuses to gve up his freedom to express himself just for $50. I agree with him 100%.

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compare me to the likes of Lucas, erath and such.

You are nothing like them. You have a lot of experience that comes out in your writings, experience and maturity. It is one of the reasons I like to read your stuff.

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Thanks DrGuy. I've never considered myself an expert at anything on this site. I never liked history before I came here and my political knowledge was non-existent. Since I came to JU, I have learned a lot about politics, I have finally figured out where I stand when it comes to my political beliefs. I have found a bit more interest in history that I didn't have before. Debating on this site has forced me to work harder on researching topics before I open my big mouth and make a fool of myself.

Sometimes I tend to babble about things that some may not understand but I have a point when I speak. I like being honest and if some cant understand what I write then that's ok. But I won't change my style just to please others. I do what i can to understand their opinions and stuff (and am constantly told how I should at least try to understand) so I feel others should take that same advise and understanding me. And if you disagree then so be it.

I like details. I wanna make sure people get my point and not leave anything to open interpretation as little as possible. People tend to take a few words and take them out of context or misunderstand them or even confuse things like Gene Nash pointed out that I was not talking about him but Col gene. Those are the results of trying to keep it short.

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Ok here's something I understand about you Charles.

You have an endearing (to me) way of being human, and a fabulous funny bone. I'm not kidding.

I don't think there is anyone on JU (maybe SC) who has made me laugh out loud as many times as you have.

Just that stupid picture with the big ear above....I think its hilarious.

You have traits that will get you readers Charles....but talking about not being afraid of someone is a sure way to run us off.

Let it go...

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Ok here's something I understand about you Charles.

You have an endearing (to me) way of being human, and a fabulous funny bone. I'm not kidding.

I don't think there is anyone on JU (maybe SC) who has made me laugh out loud as many times as you have.

Just that stupid picture with the big ear above....I think its hilarious.

You have traits that will get you readers Charles....but talking about not being afraid of someone is a sure way to run us off.

Let it go...

I appreciate your kind words Tova. But as you can see above your comments LW refuses to let go. I wanted to put an end to our constant arguing and simply stick to what ever topic we happen to be something on but she continues to insult and treat people as if she is almighty. If she refuses to let go, then so do it. But no one can say i didn't try.

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Charles,

I have to point out something paiunfully obvious.

LW says:

Most who have done so have eventually found themselves restricted or exiled--not due to *my* behavior but due to the behavior I've been able to provoke THEM to engage in.

You say:

That's your problem, you attack me at every chance even when I say nice things to you as in other articles before. And as usual, you are looking for more arguments with your comments.

She already told you something that she really enjoys doing. If she were a prosecutor most people would end up saying they are guilty just so she would stop. I'm not sure what about that quality I like, but I do. People that can manipulate others with the written word are talented. It's not like a seven foot tall, five hundred pound guy walking up to intimidate you. It's twisting you with the written word so that you feel like you are on the defensive.

I think Tova is right. You have some qualities that will draw in readers. I probably wont one be a frequent one but to each his own.

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No.

Again, Charles, you flatter yourself by assuming I even notice your presence 'on my back.' That's akin to a flea asking a Bull elephant if he's too heavy.

You know, I think I've changed my mind about what I think about you. I would say "not that you would care" but considering you always have something to say I have to go with you do care what others have to say about you. You are actually more childish than I thought you were. You really have a big ego, thinking you are somehow so high and mighty that some of us are bugs to you, and you say I flatter myself? Guess what, the only real bug around here is you. More like a pest if you think about it. The sourpuss of the site. So annoying that even the admins find you annoying, even when they've known you for many years. But we all know you live off of this kind of mentality. Getting your jollies off of annoying other people you don't like. And I thought I was annoying. Queen bee over here needs to grow up and stop thinking she is the prom queen on JU. Get over yourself LW, the only thing you have in common with an elephant is the lack of maturity and humanity. Learn to act more like a person. It's sad some people accept this kind of attitude to the point of coming to your defense when ever someone lashes at you. It's a true shame some intelligent thoughts can actually come from such a foulmouthed, childish, "I'm never gonna lose to you cause I'm better than you", bitter person like yourself. I don't find you entertaining anymore, I actually pity you. Having to live with such a sour attitude, constantly in a bad mood as if your PMS button got stuck on "active". Having nothing better to do in life than to go on JU and find people to annoy. What a sad existence.

And while I may get some interesting replies by those who don't like what I just said. Do me a favor and keep it to yourself if you do not plan on pointing fingers at LW as well since she is the one that refuses to let go yet no one points that out.

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You know, I think I've changed my mind about what I think about you. I would say "not that you would care" but considering you always have something to say I have to go with you do care what others have to say about you. You are actually more childish than I thought you were. You really have a big ego, thinking you are somehow so high and mighty that some of us are bugs to you, and you say I flatter myself? Guess what, the only real bug around here is you. More like a pest if you think about it. The sourpuss of the site. So annoying that even the admins find you annoying, even when they've known you for many years. But we all know you live off of this kind of mentality. Getting your jollies off of annoying other people you don't like. And I thought I was annoying. Queen bee over here needs to grow up and stop thinking she is the prom queen on JU. Get over yourself LW, the only thing you have in common with an elephant is the lack of maturity and humanity. Learn to act more like a person. It's sad some people accept this kind of attitude to the point of coming to your defense when ever someone lashes at you. It's a true shame some intelligent thoughts can actually come from such a foulmouthed, childish, "I'm never gonna lose to you cause I'm better than you", bitter person like yourself. I don't find you entertaining anymore, I actually pity you. Having to live with such a sour attitude, constantly in a bad mood as if your PMS button got stuck on "active". Having nothing better to do in life than to go on JU and find people to annoy. What a sad existence. And while I may get some interesting replies by those who don't like what I just said. Do me a favor and keep it to yourself if you do not plan on pointing fingers at LW as well since she is the one that refuses to let go yet no one points that out.

She shoots... SHE SCORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't you just say you wanted to stop the nonsense? This is why I don't read you often. No sooner did someone point it out to you, you fell right into the trap. She has your buttons all mapped out. All you need to do to get you in a tizzy is to be dismissive. You can't stand that. Don't believe me? Look at the history.

That comment is douche positive.

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She already told you something that she really enjoys doing. If she were a prosecutor most people would end up saying they are guilty just so she would stop. I'm not sure what about that quality I like, but I do. People that can manipulate others with the written word are talented. It's not like a seven foot tall, five hundred pound guy walking up to intimidate you. It's twisting you with the written word so that you feel like you are on the defensive.

I think Tova is right. You have some qualities that will draw in readers. I probably wont one be a frequent one but to each his own.

I can understand where you're coming from Just John and to be honest I find it sad that you enjoy such a trait from LW. But as you said, to each his own, I won't hold that against you. I think you're a really cool person and I enjoy your comments. Just keep in mind that while it may seem that LW is manipulating others, at time she is the one on the defense (though she will never admit it and will prove it when she replies to this comment) and others come to her rescue many times. Of course others are condemned for treating LW that way yet a double standard exist for her. You just proved it with your words. And don't think I'm saying I have this manipulative talent, I can be just as if not more annoying than she can and can pretty much get people going so I don't know if you wanna classify that as manipulative.

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