I hope you meant millions of Arabs in direct opposition?

You know there is something I never understood.  The Arab nations surrounding Israel, who often champion Palestine, and are so concerned about them having a homeland...these same Arabs can't give up a tiny piece of their hundreds of thousands of acres to give them one?

If it wasn't Palestine, they'd support anyone, anything, so long as that thing wants to take from the Jews.

The Jews kicked ass for that land, they shouldn't have to give up one square inch.  They have taken all comers and still the world expects them to give up land won by blood.

Can you imagine if the world tried to force us to give Texas back to Mexico, or even part of it?

I believe, to the victor goes the spoils.  Since these nations have come against Israel and LOST they should be giving up some spoils of war not making demands.

But oh no, they have OIL.  All the sudden we say its not so cut and dried...maybe the victor gets the spoils when we don't need stuff from their enemy.

I cringe every time someone from our White House (any time period) goes over there, because it is always to ask the Jews to make concessions...

Screw that.  I don't care how they got there again.  The point is, they can hold it.  That makes it theirs and its unAmerican to ask them to give anything back.

 

 

I'm a little confused how somebody throwing a bomb at a tank and it blowing up is supernatural.

ya know what you mean.  Although my BS teacher last week said he felt that Israel right up to Armageddon might actually be a safe spot to be ....until things really start to heat up there. 

Think David and Goliath!

 

 

That doesn't make it supernatural, just a mistake by the tank commanders. The same sort of thing happened in the winter war and numerous times in both world wars both on land and in the sea.

Nope. Those things are coincidences.

The real problem caused by those actions are that abandoning the Jews will lead to disaster.

As pastor Niemoeller said, first they came for the Jews... and when they came for me, there was nobody left to speak up.

That's the very real disaster that comes as punishment for abandoning the Jews.

Think of what happened to Europe in the 1940s. Humanity create their own punishment.

 

 

Well, that's it then. The US of A is supernatural. We give the jews a lot of money and a lot of technology.

I agree...but until the strangle hold called "oil" is released from around our necks....don't expect too much from the US besides "peace" keeping and mediation.

I really hate saying that, and I vote to try and change it. But in the end, the enemies of the Jews have us by the ....well, ya know.

I'll be an anti-semite if you'll be anti-american. We'll call it even.





Notice the plural form of victory used in that sentence.

And if you mean the 1948 war in which a ragtag bunch of outnumbered, disgruntled Arabs made a disunited and feeble attempt to immediately retake Israel, then I think you are out of your mind. The Jews won that war for the same reason the North won the civil war: more troops and better armed. All the jews from around the world went to Israel to defend it.

Seriously, nothing is a miracle. They don't exist. And I am getting the feeling that this is all coming from the "jews are god's chosen people" argument. Why do people believe something so absurd? If the jews won, they had some sort of advantage, probably technological or logistical. It is the only explanation.

Since 1973, Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion. If divided by today's population, that is more than $5,700 per person.

“Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion in 2003 dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.”

- John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"

Anti-American? I referred to an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that you brought up.

Oh, please. The Arabs had no reason to "take back" Israel and they were not a ragtag bunch of disgruntled people. (The statement alone is racist.) They were also not "disunited". King Abdullah of Jordan led them.

All the Jews around the world went to Israel to defend it? 4 years after the Holocaust? What are "all the Jews in the world"? In your conspiracy theory Jews are probably rich and powerful but the reality is that Jews worldwide didn't have those resources, especially not a few years after WW2.

The Jews had neither more troops nor better weapons.

And do have a look at the leaders of the conflict. And I don't mean King Abdullah.

Anyway, I find it interesting how a genocidal war started to exterminate the Jews of Israel becomes "a ragtag bunch of outnumbered, disgruntled Arabs made a disunited and feeble attempt to immediately retake Israel".

Fantastic. Arabs outnumbered by Jews. That'll be the day!

Why do people believe it?

I can tell you why.

There are entire countries that want to exterminate the Jews. Historically, several countries have managed to murder nearly half of the Jewish population at a given time, yet the Jews and Jewish culture and religion survived.

In Europe Jews walking on the streets are still being attacked when they look like Jews. Yet they have faith and stay true to their heritage and religion.

When dozens of Arab countries with a population of several hundred million attack a country of a few million Jews, the Jewish country survives, despite having no American support (in 1967) and despite the attackers having all the Soviet equipment they could want. And Israel still survives.

A Jewish rabbi, Jesus his name, convinced half the world that the Jewish G-d is the true G-d and shaped the culture of the western world.

An Ishmaeli named Muhammed, believed in the Jewish religion and convinced another third of the world of the one true G-d and shaped the culture of the eastern world.

And Jerusalem, the Jewish holy city, is the centre of so many wars because everyone wants a part of it. It's the holy city of Judaism (and was it first), of Christianity (BECAUSE of Judaism), and a holy city of Islam (BECAUSE of Judaism).

People believe it because coincidence does not explain why the same people preserve the same culture all over the world for thousands of years while under the constant threat of being exterminated. Coincidence does not explain why in Dublin, with so many mosques, it is the Reform synagogue that is found with swastikas painted on it one morning. Coincidence does not explain why 1 million Jews from Arab countries fled to Israel and were welcomed and cared for (although not as well as they deserved). And coincidence does not explain why religious, traditional, and completely secular Jews still feel a common bond.

It's not absurd; their faith is the best weapon the Jews have.

And yes, there is an "only" explanation. It is logistical. A people united by a common tradition and law and a strong belief in education and loyalty to one's friends WILL succeed against evil.

If you don't believe in G-d and a "chosen people", that's fine. But don't call it absurd when you have never had the experiences that could explain the belief to you.

When I was a student in Haifa and Hizbullah shot rockets into my university to, as the Hizbullah leader Nasrallah explained, kill all the Jews that came from all the countries in the world, I understood that there was something special about the Jewish people. NO OTHER PEOPLE is consistently being targeted by murderers. None.

G-d's chosen people, I believe. It's chosen for what I do not know...

And when I go to the synagogue tonight I know I will walk home without my kippa on my head, because I am afraid. I am afraid because Jews are chosen for SOMETHING and that they are can become apparent to anyone who looks like a Jew in the wrong neighbourhood.

 

I am sorry that preventing another Holocaust costs you so much.

But I grew up in Germany and have seen what statements like

"Rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you."

can do to people. (Quote is from 1944, said, on radio, by the first leader of the "Palestinian cause", a man still much admired in the Arab world.)

I appreciate the support of Christians, even those that I disagree with strongly about all sorts of subjects. I always think that life comes first, and science/evolution/creation etc. comes second.

As a German, I appreciate that there are (now) so many who will not make the same mistake the Germans have made and the Arabs are still making.

And as a believer in G-d, I appreciate that obvious miracles are not seen as "absurd" (and maybe they cheated by using American weapons before America was an ally) by everyone.

 

Shalom laArtzot havrit (peace for the United States),

"Leauki"

 

You saw it. Very good.

 

Any Christian worth their salt will always be on the side of the Jewish People and Nation.  It's the land and people that God loves and he will bring them thru right up to the end.  No other people group from way back in the beginnings of Israel still survive outside of the Jews. 

There is no question this group is still alive because of God's plan for them.  There has been no other group of people on this earth more persecuted than the Jews.  None.  They are the biggest testimony to the truth of the scriptures.  It's all laid out what will happen in scripture even still to come for the Jewish Nation.  It's not over yet.  They will be victorious but not until they go thru a very terrible time still yet to come....called the time of Jacob's Trouble. 

and that is a miracle. 

 

More troops?  There were about 600 thousand Jews total and millions of Arabs from six Arab nations surrounding Israel the day after their State Declaration.  So how do you figure?  Golda Mier went to the US to collect what she could and rushed back to put weapons in the hands of her people.   Get youself a map of the Middle East.  Look at Israel and then look at the surrouding Arab countries and tell me how in the world Israel was able to fend off these Arabs.

The Jews had wandered for over 2000 years  with no country to call their own, persecuted in every single country across the globe during that time.  After the Holocaust these 600K Jews made their way to Palestine and they had NO money, NO weapons, NO government, NO army, NO AF, NO taxes etc. They were a brand new country for ONE day.  They had NOTHING!  But yet they were victorious.  How does that just happen? 

 

 

cute! No, within a few short weeks with money from the US they were able to obtain weapons and whatnot and win the war. Up until then they held off the Arabs the best they could with what little they had. They were a country for only ONE day. There was no way they should have been victorious...but you do bring up a good point....the Arabs have never been that organized and that's been their downfall then and still.

It's been said that Arafat never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

This reminds me of scripture where we're told that God is NOT a God of Chaos....so by testing the spirits you can see the hand of God NOT on the Arabs but on the Jewish Nation.