America Declined.

By on November 7, 2012 7:52:59 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Tova7

Join Date 09/2005
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Edited 11/11/2012 for clarity and because I was really pissed off when I wrote this and it's just not very coherent.

“Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.”

~ Someone in the Czech Republic via a newspaper

 

I’m disappointed.

Yesterday the morning started out with such hope.  By the time I went to bed last night.  Crash and burn.

Ohio results weren’t in yet, but I could tell it was going to go for Obama.  Disgusted with half my fellow buckeyes, I went to bed.

Usually a night of rest makes things seem less grim, less hopeless in the morning.

Not so today.

It’s worse.

What I can’t wrap my head around?  How could white Americans vote for more debt?  Why do I differentiate between white and black?  Because I get racial pride.  I have black friends.  Even though Obama doesn’t have anything close to their background, their “black American” experience, he’s still “one of them.”  I think it’s retarded to vote for or against someone based on race.   Retarded when thought about logically.  But emotion, and racial pride, can blunt the senses.  And there is a simmering hostility in the black community.

The flavor of perceived oppression is often as bitter as the actual pill.

So I can understand the racial pride vote.  Or understand it as well as a white girl in the suburbs can    

So how could white, Latino, whatever vote for a man who has more debt than all other presidents combined?  Are they not paying attention?  And for the record, every single person I know who is on welfare, or gets SSRI, or some other gov. handout, voted BO.  Without exception.

The right to vote at the federal level for president isn’t a Constitutional right.  People getting checks from the government for doing nothing more than existing, shouldn’t get to vote imo.  That aside….

One of the reasons this election was so important is….Obamacare.  It is the cannon that will blast us over the fiscal cliff into oblivion and irrelevance.  Do not pass go.  Do not collect $200.

Can you say 50% income tax?

Don’t worry, you’ll have lots of practice.  It will be part of the common American experience in the not too distant future.

It is highly ironic that in my suburb, people voted for BO, and voted down the much needed school levy.  Meaning, they don’t want to pay more taxes.  hahahaha.  They elected the king of taxes!! 

Don't get me wrong.  Our current medical system is broken.  The cost of care is unrealistic.  There are things in Obamacare I support, but at the same time don't believe my family should be forced to pay for healthcare for grown-ass adults.  It's a quandry.

History shows, as a super-power declines, it is challenged by  other nations.  Usually war.  That’s what happens when the biggest kid on the block isn’t as strong anymore.  Others, who secretly resented their power all along, or simply want the resources that kid has, gang up to bring them down.  When that happens….if there is anything left of what once was America…I say we split it.  Liberals and government check collecting Dems on one side, the rest on the other.

The split is already here, but for the geography anyway.

So we split officially.  Obama-bots have their own place, one plagued with debt, taxes, and gov. dependency…and the rest of us?  Free to build the life we choose, live or die by our own ability and ambition, unlimited by gov. tax burdens. 

Our motto?

Live free or die.

Until then, I am an American.

But I have to wonder, will my grand-children be?

 

 

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November 7, 2012 8:00:23 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

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November 7, 2012 9:24:15 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I get food stamps, my kids are on state health, and I did not vote for Obama.

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November 7, 2012 10:27:14 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Jythier,
I get food stamps, my kids are on state health, and I did not vote for Obama.

Well Jyth I don't know what to tell you.  Exception to every rule?

I don't know you in RL.  The people I do know on assistance in RL ... 95+% are on assistance because:

1.  They made poor life choices and public assistance is their "bail out" and/or

2.  They aren't willing to work two jobs, hell, even one job.  They think other Americans "owe" them (and all the children they chose to bring into the world) healthcare, food, etc.

I have family members who are habitual bad choice makers.  They go for all the handouts they can get.  Why?  Because they don't take personal responsibility for their own lives and they makes excuses for their failure.  Plus it's easy.

Every single one that voted, voted BO.  And it wasn't because they truly believe he's good for the country.  They voted so the "poor" (ie themselves) can keep getting handouts.

Free riders.

When they outnumber the productive...lol.  The jokes on them.  THEN they will see what it is to truly be poor.

And one other point for the Buckeye state.  When this sequestration goes through....many DOD/Gov jobs will be gone, thousands upon thousands.  People are already being warned.  The DOD is a HUGE employer in Ohio.

This affects everyone, especially business owners.  But not just private.  Local govs won't have money from taxes, payroll, sales, so they'll be laying off local gov. workers. 

I hope I'm here long enough to watch us reap the whirlwind.

Then I'm moving south.

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November 7, 2012 10:52:39 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Is Mexico really the answer, though?

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November 7, 2012 1:32:29 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

We can only be grateful we lived to see America's greatest years, and disappointed we lived long enough to see the beginning of the end.  And that's not just maudlin' post-election funk - the decline is now inevitable and irreversible no matter what happens in 2016 or later.  Conservative producers are now hopelessly outnumbered.  de Toqueville was no dummy.  A couple more Sotomayors or Kagans will fully seal the deal.  We're done.  The smart kids will start to study Arabic & Farsi soon.

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November 7, 2012 1:52:10 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
A couple more Sotomayors or Kagans will fully seal the deal. We're done. The smart kids will start to study Arabic & Farsi soon.

I'm thinking Chinese.

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November 7, 2012 2:53:30 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I'm really disappointed too Tova. My hopes for a Romney/Ryan win were high and was already picturing Anne as First Lady.   

 

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November 7, 2012 2:55:07 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

The Chinese have their own (different) demographic problem and are not likely to end up King of the Hill.

Back to the OP topic, this sums up many of my thoughts/feelings about yesterday.

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November 7, 2012 3:41:58 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
The Chinese have their own (different) demographic problem and are not likely to end up King of the Hill.

Hmmm.  I don't know.  That dragon has been drinking out of our bowl for some time now unchallenged.  It makes for boldness.

Loved the article.  4 more years of no hope of change.

Nailed.

Quoting lulapilgrim,
I'm really disappointed too Tova. My hopes for a Romney/Ryan win were high and was already picturing Anne as First Lady.

Last time I was "disappointed."  This time, well, fool them once shame on you, fool them twice shame on THEM. 

This time I'm looking for ways to separate myself, and my money, from the fools.  It won't mean much all by itself, but I have a hunch half of America is about fed up to here with this idiocy. 

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November 7, 2012 3:46:42 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

John Adams, Founding Father and the nation’s second President warned: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."

They tried to buck that historical trend by designing a representative republic.  Same principle, unfortunately, has been at work, and once again history repeats itself.  We took the first hit from the needle, liked it, and will die for it (and from it).

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November 7, 2012 4:01:59 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
They tried to buck that historical trend by designing a representative republic. Same principle, unfortunately, has been at work, and once again history repeats itself. We took the first hit from the needle, liked it, and will die for it (and from it).

Ugh.

Today I am discouraged...but I know in a day or two, I'll start looking to act.

Democracy may be doomed to fail, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just roll over and give up...

I owe it to my kids, to all the people in the history of this nation, known and unknown, who laid down their lives in one way or another so I had the opportunity to taste Democracy, freedom, endless opportunity and abundance.

I will fight.

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November 7, 2012 4:21:46 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

I'd like to be more optimistic but I think the die is cast.  We'll only be able to delay and 'manage' the inevitable at the margins, best case scenario.  Were I 40, I'd stay all Brietbart, but my time will be up before any meaningful course correction can be achieved, if one ever can be.  May have cast my last vote of any kind, for that matter.

I've re-calibrated my life goals, the chief one being playing as many rounds of golf a month as the sack of shit occupying the White House.  You know, the guy who works as hard as he can every day of his Presidency on creating jobs for the middle class.  Or moving Forward!, or something.

Good enough for him, good enough for me.  Fore!!

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November 7, 2012 4:26:19 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Wonder why this took so long.

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November 7, 2012 4:35:20 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

A post-script.

Even at my advanced age, I'd have had some hope that Benghazi would create conditions ripe for impeachment (sort of like Watergate ripened after Nixon's landslide), were it not for one thing.  In what may have been the shrewdest move of Obama's political career, he purchased absolute impeachment immunity when he picked Joe Biden for VP.  Obama's completely untouchable, no matter how bad Benghazi and the coverup most certainly were.

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November 7, 2012 4:35:59 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
Good enough for him, good enough for me. Fore!!

Yeah.  Everyone will have to deal in their own way.

I've never seen this country so split, so divided and angry.

What a leader.

What a hoax!

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November 7, 2012 4:40:21 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
In what may have been the shrewdest move of Obama's political career, he purchased absolute impeachment immunity when he picked Joe Biden for VP. Obama's completely untouchable, no matter how bad Benghazi and the coverup most certainly were.

I was thinking along those same lines this morning.

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November 7, 2012 5:08:44 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Good article.  Depressing, but good.

Post post script:

I've listened to and read a number of discussions today about who &/or what is to blame for Romney's defeat.

I don't blame Christy, or Sandy, or Romney's campaign team, or the beltway Republican Consultancy, or Axelrod, or Plouffe.

The country's death warrant was signed June 28, 2012.  Most of us were too stunned to take in its real significance at the time.  To consciously understand what a blow to the enthusiasm engendered by the 2010 elections and Tea Party it would turn out to be.  How it would rob the movement's sails of any further wind and assure the death of liberty as we've known it.

As sure as George Washington was the Father of our Country, John Roberts was its executioner, euthanizing the greatest experiment in self-government in history with the stroke of his pen.  I blame him, and will never forgive his treachery.

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November 7, 2012 6:19:01 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Quoting Daiwa,
As sure as George Washington was the Father of our Country, John Roberts was its executioner, euthanizing the greatest experiment in self-government in history with the stroke of his pen. I blame him, and will never forgive his treachery.

That is pure poetry.

SCOTUS will be completely lopsided by the end of BOs presidency.

I'm mourning for America right now.  It feels a bit like being on the Titanic.  Some people recognize the ship is sinking, while the rest eat, drink, celebrate.

I'm done though.  I'm done pretending that people who suck up resources without contributing to this nation are ok.  That I shouldn't "judge" them.

They're not ok.

And I do.

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November 7, 2012 6:42:05 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Call it petty, but I am done pretending moochers are ok and they just need a hand up.

Done.

I'm also done with the ill informed and ignorant.  I've removed them from my life, including from Facebook.  I don't have enough time left on this planet to listen to their mindless jabber.....spitting out Chris Matthew's "facts" .... Rachel Mad Cow's blithering moos.  Voting for a president because he's "cool."

It's willful ignorance.

I can't tolerate it.

And I've finally settled, in my own mind, why I can't tolerate it.

It speaks to character.

Dem, Repub, Ind, WHATEVER.  Be informed, base your conversation on facts, heck even emotion, just make SENSE! 

If the last year, the fiscal cliff, the Libya crisis, if that doesn't make an American stand up, take notice, and gather facts....then in my mind that is negligent at best, lazy willful abstinence at worst.  Either way I don't want them hogging up whatever valuable minutes I have left in this life.

Call me intolerant.  Personally, I call it taking out the trash.

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November 7, 2012 6:43:57 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Call it petty, but I am done pretending moochers are ok and they just need a hand up.

Done.

I'm also done with the ill informed and ignorant.  I've removed them from my life, including from Facebook.  I don't have enough time left on this planet to listen to their mindless jabber.....spitting out Chris Matthew's "facts" .... Rachel Mad Cow's blithering moos.  Voting for a president because he's "cool."


It's willful ignorance.

I can't tolerate it.

And I've finally settled, in my own mind, why I can't tolerate it.

It speaks to character.

Dem, Repub, Ind, WHATEVER.  Be informed, base your conversation on facts, heck even emotion, just make SENSE! 

If the last year, the fiscal cliff, the Libya crisis, if that doesn't make an American stand up, take notice, and gather facts....then in my mind that is negligent at best, lazy willful self-centeredness at worst.  Either way I don't want them hogging up whatever valuable minutes I have left in this life.

Call me intolerant.  Personally, I call it taking out the trash.

(This is not a blanket condemnation of all Dems.  The majority of the ones I know want what is best for the country.  We just disagree on what is best.  This sentiment is directed at people who are in it all for themselves, to hell with the rest of America.  Or just stupid people.)

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November 7, 2012 7:37:34 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

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November 7, 2012 8:48:02 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Tova, reply 17...I know Tom McLaughlin personally. Everyone is stung by this outcome.

....................

Quoting Daiwa,
I've listened to and read a number of discussions today about who &/or what is to blame for Romney's defeat.

I hold the mainstream media to blame as they protected Obama all the way. 

.........................................................

 

I found this article very insightful ......
Bread, Circuses and the War on the Unborn.
The US Presidential Elections in an Historical Context

By Elizabeth Lev

As we enter into the final days of the presidential election in the United States, the constant mantra from the entertainment industry for the reelection of President Barack Obama has been the promotion of “reproductive rights.” Starlets and aging glamour queens have come out of the woodwork to tout the importance of Planned Parenthood (the world’s largest abortion provider), the necessity of taxpayer-funded contraception (including abortifacients and sterilization), and the supposed “war on women” of the Republican party.

In a country faced with real terrorist threats (including the recent murder of US ambassador Chris Stevens), a severe economic crisis and a natural disaster in the form of hurricane Sandy, this fixation on sex and entertainment is bizarre—yet, for students of history, strangely familiar. A similar campaign was waged by Emperor Vespasian in 70 AD, when he sought to distract the Romans from fire, ruin and invasion with the games of the Coliseum.

The Coliseum, more precisely known as the Flavian Amphitheater, is probably the best known monument from Ancient Rome. Millions of people flock to its skeletal remains every year, delighting in the tales of the gladiators, marveling at its size, and posing for photographs with costumed Roman soldiers in the arena of death.

The Flavian amphitheater, however, much like the colossal remains of a Tyrannosaurus Rex, would be much less pleasant if it were still active today. The building should not only serve to delight, but also to teach.

The Coliseum was built during a very precarious era for the Empire. Nero had proved himself not only unworthy of his exalted title of “Augustus,” but had left the city depleted of men and money after the great fire of Rome. His Golden House parked in the middle of Rome’s prime real estate had been the final straw for an exasperated population, which rioted and forced the emperor out of the city, where he ultimately killed himself.

Thus the next Emperor, Vespasian, inherited an angry Empire. Businesses had been lost, life savings dissipated and many lives gone. It would be very difficult indeed to convince the Romans that the Empire was a better solution than the recently extinct Republic. Vespasian, whose greatest gift seems to have been an ability to appear as a “people’s emperor” (history records many down-to-earth quips that still bring a smile today), found a way to quell the rising dissatisfaction: the entertainment industry.

This was not entirely original with him. The Roman Republic had outlawed theaters, claiming they were breeding grounds for rebellion, which captivated the idle with tragic stories designed to incite dissent. Pompey the Great circumvented this law in 52BC, becoming the darling of the people, and Julius Caesar, not one to lose an advantage, quickly built another theater, which he never lived to see completed.

The successful demagoguery of the proto-Emperors was not lost on Vespasian, who knew that, more than appealing to piety or philanthropy (two qualities highly prized by the Romans) the quickest way to make the populace succumb to his will was to give them entertainments, which, in the Empire, were called “munera” or gifts.

Juvenal, a Roman poet who witnessed the first years of the Coliseum, saw clearly the teetering moral foundations of the Empire. In Satire X, he laments,

“The public has long since cast off its cares; the people that once bestowed commands, consulships, legions and all else, now meddles no more and longs eagerly for just two things----Bread and Games!”

This was the Rome of Vespasian, a people turned inward to its own desires, ignoring the good of the nation and its nobler pursuits, and seeking only to be fed and amused. In this world, a gladiator could rise to sway the populace as did Spartacus, whose prowess in the arena was equated with the ability to lead the polity.

Our modern age does not throw condemned criminals and prisoners of war into the ring to die for our amusement, although, thanks to cinema and video games, this  human appetite is still fully appeased.

Our era, like the Romans, looks to sex for its ultimate entertainment, the unfettered ability to take pleasure however and whenever we like. Seemingly more pacific than the murders in the arena, rampant sexuality encourages people to exploit each other for amusement, under the guise that this is a harmless pastime as long as both are consenting. The philosopher Seneca, watching the games even before the age of the Coliseum, already understoodhow a little “harmless entertainment” would transform  his people.  He wrote,

“There is nothing so ruinous to good character as to idle away one's time at some spectacle. Vices have a way of creeping in because of the feeling of pleasure that it brings. Why do you think that I say that I personally return from shows greedier, more ambitious and more given to luxury?”

Pope Benedict XVI has identified the obsession with sexuality as a form of escapism similar to drugs. In his book “Light of the World,” while speaking of sex tourism and drug addiction, the Holy Father noted that the West feels a need for these “drugs” as it has A craving for happiness has developed that cannot content itself with things as they are…. The destructive processes at work in that are extraordinary and are born from the arrogance and the boredom and the false freedom of the Western world.”

A pagan philosopher and a Catholic theologian singing in harmony?

But are these modern games victimless? Does really no one get hurt? In the arena, the Romans at least threw to the amusements of the people condemned criminals, men who had fought against the empire or disobeyed its most serious laws. In the eyes of the Roman people, these people had lost their status as human beings by defying the might and order of the Empire.

Today the victims that are sacrificed for the pleasures of the citizens are  wholly innocent: the unborn. As much as we would like to separate them, sex and human life are still intertwined. But the savage agenda of “reproductive rights,” treats the unborn like the condemned criminal of Rome--as less than human, an unwanted by-product of bedroom entertainments. Unlimited abortion and contraception including abortifacients, paid for by every American taxpayer, wages war on these innocent lives. In Vespasian’s amphitheater, the games were free, a gift of the military spoils of a generous emperor, but in the abortion arena, every American, working to raise a family, will be paying for the emperor’s sinister pandering

There are, of course, many cases where abortion and contraception are resorted to out of hardship, violence and very difficult situations, but Planned Parenthood did not become a 4 billion dollar a year industry by catering to women who are victims of rape and incest. The abortion business has given 12 million dollars to the Obama campaign and Cecile Richards, President of Planned Parenthood, has taken a leave of absence to campaign full time for the incumbent.

When those promoting the right to abortion are the same who make sexually provocative entertainments, it is not rape victims they are championing. The Playboy Foundation’s status as major donor to Planned Parenthood is not motivated by concern for victims of rape and incest, but rather seeks to snuff out the unwanted consequences of the freewheeling lifestyle it promotes. A television ad likening voting for the first time to losing one’s virginity, seems par for the course for these people, attempting to titillate young people into the voting booths.

Sadly, among the starlets like Scarlett Johansson and Eva Longoria, Meryl Streep has also declared her belief that the crusade to de-fund Planned Parenthood and place legal limits on abortion amounts to a “War on Women.” She stands like a modern Spartacus, ready to rally others to an ill-conceived and ill-fated quest. Dozens of actors and actresses have spoken out in support of the radically permissive abortion stance of the present administration.

The Romans and Greeks, however, as seduced as they were by the games, were never foolish enough to believe the words of an actor. The Greek word for actor “hypokrites" was understood, at least by the Greek speaking authors of the New Testament, to mean one who says one thing and does another. Actors are paid to make you believe they are aliens or angels, presidents or prostitutes. Indeed, many of our modern “hypokrites" play the noble artist among their fans Stateside, but hawk toothpaste and soft drinks in advertisements on the other side of the globe. Are these the people who should guide Americans in the decisions that will affect their children and their grandchildren?

In the ancient world, it was scholars and philosophers who stood up to decry the folly of a regime that would manipulate its people through bread and circuses. In our own Brave New World, such students of reason are needed more than ever.

* * *

Elizabeth Lev teaches Christian art and architecture at Duquesne University's Italian campus and University of St. Thomas' Catholic Studies program. Her new book, The Tigress of Forlì: Renaissance Italy's Most Courageous and Notorious Countess, Caterina Riario Sforza de' Medici" was published by Harcourt, Mifflin Houghton Press Fall 2012. She can be reached at lizlev@zenit.org

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November 7, 2012 8:56:35 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

And there's this.

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