If you don't Tithe, do you go to hell?

Does it help at all, or is this just a scare tactic?

By on September 7, 2008 1:39:06 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

foreversere...

Join Date 06/2004
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I can't imagine going to a church or being a member of a church where they tell you that if you don't tithe, you go straight to hell, or someting like that! 

I am aware that there are some churches who do force their members to tithe, I think that is wrong. There are also those out there, who if they don't force memebers to tithe, they dictate how much money their members should give to them.  I also think that is wrong.

When I was a regular member at a church, I did tithe, I gave whatever amount I could afford to give, but I was aware of the fact that there was a minimum set and the members that didn't give, weren't look on in a particular nice manner.  Yeah, one of the reasons why I no longer go there (even before I move more than 1000 miles away)!

Some people would put giving to their church first before they even pay their bills or they are left without enough to support their family expenses for the month!  Does that make sense to you?

I believe that members of a church should contribute money, if they can afford to, and when they can afford, to the causes of the church.  That goes without saying. But to be forced to give money just becasuse, no way! 

I think each church organization have a responsibility to its members to make sure that they don't feel pressured into giving what they can't afford.  They also should be responsible to make members aware of what they as a church community or doing and what their money is being used for.

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September 7, 2008 1:45:37 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

In answer to your question: I dunno but I suppose it's as good a reason as any, Donna!

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September 7, 2008 2:10:17 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

In answer to your question: I dunno but I suppose it's as good a reason as any, Donna!

That little guy is waiting then?! lol

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September 7, 2008 2:47:10 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

The answer is no but if you're not giving then there's something wrong with your heart.

First of all tithing is NOT a NT teaching, nor was it EVER given to the church.  Tithing is an OT teaching and given to the Jews.  Basically if you really understood OT giving you'd see it amounted to about 23% or so. 

The only thing in the NT is "The Lord loves a cheeful giver." 

If you really want to shake things up a bit.....there were ONLY two examples of giving in the NT.  They both were showing to give ALL that you had so we're talking 100%.  We have the rich widow who gave her last two coins from her heart and we have the rich young ruler who JEsus said to go and sell all that he had and give it to the poor.  Of course he went away sad because he had MUCH possessions. 

These examples were to show us that everything is God's in the first place.  Where our treasure is there our heart is also. 

God wants us to give because we love him and to further his work.  If we are giving out of guilt or grudgingly then better off NOT to give at all. 

If any preacher is telling you that you will go to Hell by NOT tithing...then run as fast as you can out of that church.  This pastor is showing he does NOT know the scriptures and he's in business and not necessarily God's business. 

One other note, I do agree with Giving God first and making due with the rest.  This is biblical.   I believe by doing so God will bless you and stretch your dollars so that all your needs are met. 

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September 7, 2008 2:48:31 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I couldn't edit but I meant "poor widow" not rich widow. 

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September 7, 2008 3:34:55 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I agree with you.  I went to a church where they started a building fund and had everyone in church go up and put their financial commitment in a chest during church in front of everyone.  I did a one time donation to the fund which was a significant amount for me at the time but I did not make a weekly committment because I didn't want to commit to something that I may not be able to fulfill.  I definately got some looks because I did not make the weekly commitment.  This was in addition to our regular giving an extra amount to be giving for the new building.  It hurt my feelings at the time and I did feel that they were putting extra pressure by making it such a public issue.

I give now at my church but I do not give a steady percentage.  I give what I can when I can but I am struggling to provide for my boys and I just don't have it.  I hope that in the future I will be able to do more.  I do feel like our church is pretty low key about it and doesn't put a lot of pressure on individuals.  I also love the fact that my church gives 10% of whatever is collected back to the community so they are absolutely practicing what they preach. 

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September 7, 2008 6:11:07 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I do feel like our church is pretty low key about it and doesn't put a lot of pressure on individuals. I also love the fact that my church gives 10% of whatever is collected back to the community so they are absolutely practicing what they preach.

That is wonderful and as it should be!

I went to a church where they started a building fund and had everyone in church go up and put their financial commitment in a chest during church in front of everyone. I did a one time donation to the fund which was a significant amount for me at the time but I did not make a weekly committment because I didn't want to commit to something that I may not be able to fulfill. I definately got some looks because I did not make the weekly commitment. This was in addition to our regular giving an extra amount to be giving for the new building. It hurt my feelings at the time and I did feel that they were putting extra pressure by making it such a public issue.

This is exactly what I'm referring to!  I know of a few people this has happened to, totally wrong!

 

If you really want to shake things up a bit.....

No shaking unless it's a beverage of choice!

 

The answer is no but if you're not giving then there's something wrong with your heart.

No I'm not giving to a church anymore, just the random public church of service and donations wherever my heart directs me.

 

 

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September 7, 2008 11:15:16 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Giving to a church is kind of like the actual reason for taxes - you're giving, with other believers, so that together your funds can do something bigger than each of you could do individually, which is at the least to run a church and there is no upper limit to what this pooling of resources can accomplish.  You're not paying for services rendered, but your money helps the church to render services.

If you're not giving because you can't afford to, you're wrong.  You're also missing a huge part of God's character with this.  You know, when Jesus saw the widow give her money, all she had, he did not rebuke the men for not taking it back out and giving it back to her.  Giving is the privilege of the rich AND the poor.  Do you think that widow wasn't taken care of?  God saw to her needs, and he'll see to yours too.  That's a major part of who He is, that he sees to our material needs as well as our spiritual needs.  He specifically asked you to test Him in this, and God will not fail this test.

As for making it public... that's accountability.  But why would people look down on your for not pledging?  God doesn't tell everyone to give the same amount to a building fund, or to give in the same way.  As long as you looked to God to direct your giving, you are in the right, and their attitudes are wrong.  But if they pledged $100 a week, maybe accountability is the only way they can avoid sinning by breaking their pledge. 

I'm not pointing at anyone here, but I really wonder how many churches in this economic downturn are suffering from a financial and spiritual crisis right now because people decided that cable TV was more important than Jesus.  I'm absolutely sure that at least some people have had to make that decision and have gone with cable.  Or any number of other similar decisions.  And when the people stop pooling their resources, the church cannot run any longer.

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September 7, 2008 11:59:08 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

It's a little of both in my church.  On the one hand we are believers in the Malachi "Will a man rob God", on the other hand, our tithing is put in envelopes which are handed to the Bishop or one of his Counselors whenever it is convenient.  There is no plate or bucket past around in church so no one sees who is giving what.

Once a year we do have a meeting with the bishop called "Tithing settlement".  It's a private meeting between the bishop and the member.  In the case of parents, the whole family is in there. Once the kids turn 18, then they meet separately.  In the meeting, the bishop tells the members about the state of the budget and other financial information.  He then hands each member a piece of paper with their total donations (tithing, offerings for the needy, missionary fund, etc).   He then asks the member if the amount is a "full tithe" (10%), or partial tithe.

No one checks on anyone to make sure it's really a "full tithe", it is really just the honor system between the member and God.  The paper given to the member is for tax purposes, if the member chooses to deduct the donations.

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September 8, 2008 2:04:44 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

it is really just the honor system between the member and God. The paper given to the member is for tax purposes, if the member chooses to deduct the donations.

As it should be, and the honor system is what I'm sure most people go by, [some would say it is guilty concience] and the tax records is a good thing too!

 

on the other hand, our tithing is put in envelopes which are handed to the Bishop or one of his Counselors whenever it is convenient. There is no plate or bucket past around in church so no one sees who is giving what.

I think it is ideal that way no one gossips about hos little or how much someone gives.

 

As long as you looked to God to direct your giving, you are in the right, and their attitudes are wrong.

I agree here and this is how it should be always!

You're also missing a huge part of God's character with this.

Personally, I don't think so.  I am aware of who and what he is without knowing about him giving money to anyone.

 

If you're not giving because you can't afford to, you're wrong.

If a family can't give because they can't afford to, how is that wrong?

 

You're not paying for services rendered, but your money helps the church to render services.

Of course, this is a given that this is how it is!

 

 

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September 8, 2008 3:16:47 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

My church doesn't tithe.  Well, that's probably because it doesn't really exist.

I don't bother going to church.  I figure I can hammer out my own relationship with God.  Church is just too...churchy for me. 

Besides, I didn't know there was a deposit to get into Heaven.

In response to your title question, you shouldn't go to hell for not paying tithe...and whoever is telling people that is an ass.  It's important to give, but to give beyond your means is a stupid idea because sooner or later you're going to be taking charity from the church when you have no money to pay for your house, your car, your food.  It's cute that you think God will provide for you if you pay something to a church...but the world (and God) to me seems a lot more cruel than that.

But as a non-churchgoer and avoider of organized religion, I am somewhat biased in my opinions.

 

~Zoo

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September 8, 2008 3:32:00 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

If a family can't give because they can't afford to, how is that wrong?

the only way you "can't" give is if you have no income.  If you have income and you desire to do the will of God, then giving is part of that.  Think about it, if you decided "tithing," which is 10% of your income, is what you decide than you're talking 10 cents for every dollar.  You keep 90 cents.  That's not unreasonable. 

I don't actually believe in tithing per se although I think if you're looking for a number that's a good place to start.  I think tithing can actually limit our giving.  We must remember that it's all God's to begin with and we are only giving it back to God to further his work.  One thing I found out by experience is that you can NEVER outgive God.  The more you give, the more you receive.  It's amazing how that works. 

There was a famous preacher back in I think the 1800's (I'm thinking it was John Wesley) who figured out how much he needed to live on and gave the rest back to God.  So every year when he would earn more and more money, he gave more and more away and only kept a pittance for himself being content with his needs being met and not worrrying about anything else.  It got to the point where he was giving the larger percentage to God and keeping the smaller for himself. 

So there is no one really who can use the excuse they can't afford to give to God. 

To underscore how important the subject of money and possessions is to God, sixteen of thirty eight parables speak about how people should handle earthly treasure.  In fact Christ taught more about such stewardship (one of every ten verses in the Gospels) than about heaven and hell combined.  The entire Bible contains more than two thousand references to wealth and property, twice as many as the total references to faith and prayer.  What we do with the things God has given us is very important to him. 

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September 8, 2008 3:39:01 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Personally, I don't think so. I am aware of who and what he is without knowing about him giving money to anyone.
If a family can't give because they can't afford to, how is that wrong?

These two go together.  They're wrong because they CAN afford to give.  And God will take care of them, which is what is being missed in his character when one refuses to give because they 'can't afford it'.  That's what I'm saying.

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September 8, 2008 4:44:07 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Think about it, if you decided "tithing," which is 10% of your income, is what you decide than you're talking 10 cents for every dollar. You keep 90 cents. That's not unreasonable.

It's really astounding that you can't recognize that there really are some people who are unable to give -- who, frankly, don't even make enough to live off of to start with.  If given a choice between paying rent and feeding your kids  -- I'd hope you'd feed and shelter your children -- not add to the bank account of the church.  

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September 8, 2008 4:45:20 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

If given a choice between paying rent and feeding your kids -- I'd hope you'd feed and shelter your children

 

That should say "given a choice between paying the rent and feeding your kids, or donating to your church..."

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September 8, 2008 5:00:25 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

It's really astounding that you can't recognize that there really are some people who are unable to give --

nobody understands that more than I do.  If you looked at a 10 year period on our tax returns you'd see less than 20K for many of them...well under that for a few years with three kids and a step-child.  One year we made 8K.  Another we made 13K.  Do the math.  How much is 10% of 8K over the course of a year?  Not much and not much of a difference. 

The year we made 8K, our church gave us 500 for Christmas and put boxes of food on our porch.  That 500 was more than we ever spent up until that time on Christmas.   Like I keep saying....you cannot outgive God. 

It is better to give than receive. 

I stand by my comments. 

 

 

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September 8, 2008 5:08:48 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

If given a choice between paying rent and feeding your kids -- I'd hope you'd feed and shelter your children -- not add to the bank account of the church.

As I said, God said to test Him.  Therefore, if you cannot pay the rent/feed your kids due to tithing (and more likely the 10% isn't going to be the difference between able and unable) then it's no longer your job to do it.  It's God's responsibility now, and He will take care of you.

The year we made 8K, our church gave us 500 for Christmas and put boxes of food on our porch. That 500 was more than we ever spent up until that time on Christmas. Like I keep saying....you cannot outgive God.

The accountant in me wants to say that you outgave God by $300....

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September 8, 2008 5:18:45 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

As I said, God said to test Him.  Therefore, if you cannot pay the rent/feed your kids due to tithing (and more likely the 10% isn't going to be the difference between able and unable) then it's no longer your job to do it.  It's God's responsibility now, and He will take care of you.

There's a lot of dead matchgirls whose angels came only after death. Whatever happened to 'God helps those who help themselves'?

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September 8, 2008 5:32:22 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

The accountant in me wants to say that you outgave God by $300....

ha!  But you didn't add up the groceries?  That's worth something........anyhow that's all I remember from those hard times right now.  Oh and I do  remember my kids got free lunches at school also during those lean times.  So add that up with the groceries!!!  I think we more than broke even......LOL. 

 What I do know is we are now totally debt free owning outright everything we have including two homes.  We have no mortgages.  One of our latest pastors here challenged his congregation to test this out, like you said Jay, put God to the test.  He personally said if they would try the giving to God first and it didn't work out for them and they felt they were not blessed as a result he would personally refund their tithe. 

Pretty risky wouldn't you say?  I'm not sure I agree with him because it's totally missing the point.  We should give without thinking or expecting anything back.  So it sort of defeats the purpose. 

I do have to say that God has truly outgiven us in every which way.  I can vouch for it. 

 

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September 8, 2008 5:51:45 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

If given a choice between paying rent and feeding your kids -- I'd hope you'd feed and shelter your children -- not add to the bank account of the church.

I guess that depends on what you think tithing is really about.  If it's just about money to you, then you are right, but to me the money is just the tool, faith is the point.  If I take that 10% and spend it on anything that comes down the pike, instead of paying my tithing, I'm teaching my kids that the money is more important to me than my faith in Jesus Christ.  On the other hand, if I pay that tithing, and feed them, but maybe miss a meal myself, then that is an object lesson for them too.

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September 8, 2008 6:01:32 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

How much is 10% of 8K over the course of a year? Not much and not much of a difference.

It's $800 and I'm not sure in whose calcuations that it is "not much."  Seems like an awful lot to me -- and depending on where you live, it's at least one month's rent (if not more). 

(and more likely the 10% isn't going to be the difference between able and unable)

Really?  It seems pretty clear to me you've never been in a situation where every last dime matters -- 10% is a big deal.

If I take that 10% and spend it on anything that comes down the pike, instead of paying my tithing, I'm teaching my kids that the money is more important to me than my faith in Jesus Christ.

Which is a fair enough lesson if you are talking about spending the money on cable or some other non-necessity.  But if you are talking about trying to teach a kid that faith in Jesus is important while that kids is going hungry -- I've got a problem with that. 

 

I'm not opposed to giving -- I firmly believe that everyone should be giving back to society -- I just don't agree that financial donations are the only way to show your faith.

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September 8, 2008 6:07:00 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Shades:

Which is a fair enough lesson if you are talking about spending the money on cable or some other non-necessity. But if you are talking about trying to teach a kid that faith in Jesus is important while that kids is going hungry -- I've got a problem with that.

Which is why I've missed a meal or two to pay tithing, and so has my wife, but there has always been food for the kids... that food may have been breaking into our reserves of Popcorn and Peanut Butter, but they did eat.



I'm not opposed to giving -- I firmly believe that everyone should be giving back to society -- I just don't agree that financial donations are the only way to show your faith.

True enough. But if I'm going to tell my kids that it is important to pay tithing, the lesson is lost if they see me using that 10% for myself instead.   More to  your point though, if all they see me donating is money, that teaches them something I'd rather them not learn from me also.

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September 8, 2008 6:18:26 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

We should give, but there are times when the chuch should give. Never give what you need, ask for help.

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September 8, 2008 8:17:50 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Really? It seems pretty clear to me you've never been in a situation where every last dime matters -- 10% is a big deal.

Funny thing, though.  When I'm tithing, I seem to always have enough money.  When I don't, I always seem to be short.  It's almost as if God is taking care of me when I give... because that's exactly what's happening!


We should give, but there are times when the chuch should give. Never give what you need, ask for help.

Is there anything wrong with giving to the Turkey basket program at church, and then going and picking up a basket?  I agree that the church needs to be there for you as well, or it's not really doing it's job either.  You give your 10% and the church needs to be there to help do God's work of giving back.

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September 8, 2008 8:32:27 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

When I'm tithing, I seem to always have enough money. When I don't, I always seem to be short.

Maybe you tithe because you have enough money and don't when you're short?  That would be the cause and effect that makes the most sense.

If God is providing...does he send you a check?

~Zoo

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September 8, 2008 11:30:58 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

If God is providing...does he send you a check? ~Zoo

 

Cute!LOL!   It comes in whatever form you need!

 

I've been down the road of not knowing where my next meal is coming from or feeding my kids and not eating much before. I've been down the road of not knowing where the next cent is coming from to pay a much needed bill.  Once I even went to a church to get help, before they could give me help they wanted so much information and copies of documents that I just gave up and left in frustration!  It is not a nice thing not knowing where the next dollar is coming from when you are in a crisis! So how would it be nice to give what you don't have?  I don't see the sense.  One thing I remember the bible says, to not forget yourself in prayer.  I think that God doesn't expect us to short change ourselves as that would be stupid don't you think?  Most definitely give what you can, when you can, a reasonable thing to me!

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