It's total bullshit.

or; nine thousand dollars a song?!?

By on October 5, 2007 12:43:22 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

SanChonino

Join Date 12/2005
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News today is that there's a lady in Minnesota who finally stood up to the record companies' ridiculous and draconian copyright rules.

And what does she get for it?

220,000 dollars in fines. For 24 songs she supposedly downloaded.

Yeah, that's a little over 9,000 dollars a song.

Now, I understand that the record companies' goal was to make an example of the single mother of two, but she maintains her innocence - that she was neither involved in downloading or uploading music. And besides, 9,000 dollars a song? Seems a bit ridiculous.

But I only see this as making those of us who may or may not participate in file sharing becoming more brazen. I'm sure that more sites will become more ardent in their desires to stick up to the big corporations, like the Pirate Bay does so very, very well.

But nine thousand dollars a song is bullshit.

And that's all I have to say on the matter.

Radiohead has it right. Pie in the face of those fools.
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October 5, 2007 1:45:36 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
I'm totally with you on this!
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October 5, 2007 1:46:01 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
The recording industry is all but guaranteeing its own demise. And that will be a good thing. I know several artists who refuse to sign with labels because they want to retain creative control over their own work.

The RIAA's become a serious organized crime racket. I would not be surprised if they start going after musicians who refuse to participate in their little scam. On a micro level, this is already happening, as the organized crime rackets that run New Orleans' music scene are trying to ban street musicians because they take money away from the bar musicians.
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October 5, 2007 8:08:16 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Yep, the record companies days are numbered and it's no one's fault but their own. 
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October 5, 2007 8:28:38 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Ok, I'll take the devil's advocate role here and ask those that are complaining just why someone that had a supposed preponderence of the evidence against them, creating an appearance of liability in a civil liability case, why that individual shouldn't be slapped hard to sharing music with other individuals?

Not that I like the record companies at all, and not that I don't think that the amount of damages that was awarded wasn't completely ridiculous, but sharing music with others -- short of giving them the CD, record or originally recorded tape you purchased -- is not permitted and does steal income that belongs to the artists (and, sadly enough, to the stupid record companies).

I agree that the record companies are evil, their view of customer rights to move music between formats for consumer convenience is absolutely crazy (see recent comments by Sony that say ripping music from a CD to put on an MP3 player is stealing.  IDIOTS! {record company, not consumers, readers here, etc.}), but anyone that is dumb enough to run Kazaa or similar software is thumbing their noses at record companies in a way that they shouldn't.

If you have hooked a computer up to the net and are sharing music files from it, then you are absolutely breaking the law, no matter how screwed up we think that the law is.  If you want the law changed, lobby the idiots and morons in Congress that were already bought and paid for by the record business and see if you can make them change the law.  Good luck with that though as it isn't bloodly likely to change.

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October 5, 2007 9:06:40 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
short of giving them the CD, record or originally recorded tape you purchased -- is not permitted and does steal income that belongs to the artists (and, sadly enough, to the stupid record companies).


Umm, actually this is not entirely true, terp. If I copy a CD or tape that I LEGALLY purchased and GIVE you the copy, with no money changing hands, that is considered "fair use". That was the law Napster originally tried to use as its loophole, arguing that "friends" meant "anyone with access to the net".

I know you're playing devil's advocate, but this judgment is insane, and an overreach. Do you really think the RIAA will compensate the artists whose work was downloaded? Doubtful. They'll pocket the money themselves.

I've seen too many good musicians locked out of the industry by the RIAA and their thugs. You can't just go out, book a concert hall, and sell tickets anymore. You have to go through these goons to get anywhere. And that needs to change.

Look at Prince for an example. While I'm not a fan of the man's music, I sympathize with the guy. For several long years, his original record company stole EVEN HIS NAME (which is his BIRTH name) so that he could no longer use it. This is why he used the symbol all of those years.

The RIAA is no better than the mafia, in my estimation. The chief difference is, tha mafia makes better cannoli!
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October 5, 2007 10:02:41 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
is not permitted and does steal income that belongs to the artists


Simple question....Bottom line everyone: Did she steal or not?


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October 5, 2007 11:02:46 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Did she steal or not?


That's the problem, Lula. This is far from a cut-and-dry case. Is sharing stealing?

You could make the argument that if I buy a case of Spaghetti-Os and then distribute them among my friends, that's stealing, because then I'm robing Franco-American the money that they would've gotten if all those people had bought their own cans of Spaghetti-Os. Do you see why this is hard to define?

I've said it before, I'll say it again: the record companies are completely full of bullshit. That's why there are SO many artists who support the consumer when it comes to these things - they themselves have realized the ridiculousness of the behavior of the record companies.
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October 5, 2007 11:07:25 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
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October 5, 2007 11:09:00 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Arrgh, I'm tyring to embed the new video by the Pirate Bay about file sharing . . . it's not working.

Go here to see it. It's pretty cute.

And remember: sharing is caring.
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October 5, 2007 11:19:37 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Umm, actually this is not entirely true, terp. If I copy a CD or tape that I LEGALLY purchased and GIVE you the copy, with no money changing hands, that is considered "fair use". That was the law Napster originally tried to use as its loophole, arguing that "friends" meant "anyone with access to the net".

Sorry, not true.

You can duplicate for YOUR OWN personal use, but not to give to another individual.  It could possibly even be a stretch that you would purchase a copy for your use and share with a family member, but I don't think the law really gets that specific, nor have the decisions regarding fair use (that I am aware of).  Fair use, though, as I understand it covers the personal use of the original licenser/purchaser of the product.  If you want to share with another individual (i.e., loan a book type thing), you must give away the original and any and all copies you have made as you may not keep copies.   At least that is how things have been seen so far and I really don't expect them to change.

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October 5, 2007 11:21:09 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Simple question....Bottom line everyone: Did she steal or not?

If she didn't buy the copies she had then simple bottom line answer is yes.

If she shared copies that she obtained, no matter where from, then the fairly simple answer is that she was conspiring to steal and/or aiding and abetting (spelling?) other individuals that were stealing.  Still a crime.

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October 5, 2007 11:21:19 AM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
If you want to share with another individual (i.e., loan a book type thing), you must give away the original and any and all copies you have made as you may not keep copies.


Draconian, stifling, and ridiculous.
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October 5, 2007 12:10:13 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Not draconian, stifling, or ridiculous. See, you don't buy CDs. You buy a license to listen to the music on a CD. And only from the CD. Anything else is illegal. You cannot play it at a party. You cannot let anyone else hear it at all. It's only for you, unless they've all bought the CD too, and forget about putting it on your computer. That's not legal.

See, with the spaghettios, you're not buying a license to eat spaghettios. You're buying the actual product. Anything electronic, you aren't buying the product, just a license to use it.

Which is why I DLed Capitalism 2. I have the license to it, I just can't find the CD. So that's not stealing, even though I probably can't prove that I did buy it.

If you give away your license to listen to music, you can't keep a copy of any of it.

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October 5, 2007 12:17:12 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
You buy a license to listen to the music on a CD. And only from the CD.


Draconian, stifling, ridiculous, and F***IN' STUPID.
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October 5, 2007 12:21:07 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Besides, there's a difference between software and a CD. Your software came with a rather hefty "End User License Agreement". Remember that thing you have to read and check "I agree"? There, you are told, explicitly, exactly what you can do with that product.

Same with movies. They've got that big "FBI warning" on it, telling me exactly what I can and can't do.

I've looked at ten different CD cases and booklets now, while just sitting at my desk. No "End User License Agreement". No license anything. And that's why it's draconian, stifling, and ridiculous. I am given no restrictions, according to the CD itself (and I just looked at 10).

If they're going to play these silly games, I suggest they actually tell people the archaic, foolhardy laws.
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October 5, 2007 1:43:25 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Draconian, stifling, ridiculous, and F***IN' STUPID.

You won't get any argument from me in that regard as I too think the way that music (and movies for that matter, since they follow the same scheme) is just wrong.  And lets not get into an argument how stupid software licensing is either, as I'm no fan of that crap either  (though I give props to Stardock for no-nonsense approaches to licensing their software and management of licenses for that software).

The whole thing is a mess, but it is a mess because too many people ignored the restrictions that were placed on things and kept spending their money supporting the record companies and movie studios and their restrictions.

If you want the rules changed, boycott the products and let the copyright holders suffer the economic impact of their stupid restrictions and rules.  When they can't sell their product, eventually they won't have enough money left to pay the legal fees needed to sue people into submission and we'll get new laws and rules that will make sense.

In the interim, as I've said before, the laws and protections favor the rights holder -- and that is the people that released the discs -- and not the customers and consumers.  Those rights holders (Sony, Disney, FOX, Viacom, Universal, etc., and their subsidiaries) bought and paid for the laws they have by paying millions into the coffers of politicians campaign funds.  They are high on the feeding list and they get what they want while the public was long since sold out by the politicians.  Just more of the corrupt political system (with equal blame to be placed on both Democrat and Republican pol's).

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October 5, 2007 1:49:59 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
boycott the products and let the copyright holders suffer the economic impact of their stupid restrictions and rules


I see peer-to-peer file sharing as doing exactly that, and thus I hope that it continues to flourish. According to the news last night, CD sales are down 16 percent this year from last, which was down significantly from the year before as well.

Now, don't let this make you believe that I don't buy music to support artists - I, in fact, by quite a lot of music, in the name of showing support for the musicians I like. (Thankfully, most of them are signed to smaller, independent labels, which makes me feel a lot better about it, knowing I'm not just putting more money in BMG's coffers, but I'm helping foster the release of new music on indie labels.) But I still usually download something before I buy it, to see if it's worth my money.
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October 5, 2007 3:13:07 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
You know, if you don't buy music, the only albums that will be sold are those of Justin Timberlake, and all those 'entertainers' instead of music artists. Yes, they will still be bought. And that stinks. It will not improve music quality to boycott, but destroy any shred of hope for the major labels ever releasing good music.
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October 5, 2007 3:22:52 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
It will not improve music quality to boycott, but destroy any shred of hope for the major labels ever releasing good music.


I just said, I buy smaller, independent label music quite often.

Out of curiousity, let's see what CDs I've purchased recently and what label they're on:

Neurosis' "Enemy of the Sun", "Through Silver in Blood", "Times of Grace", "A Sun that Never Sets", and "The Eye of Every Storm". All on Neurot Recordings, Neurosis' private recording label.

Battle of Mice's "A Day of Nights". Neurot Recordings.

The Pax Cecilia's "Blessed are the Bonds". Self-released (I donated to them).

Gojira's "From Mars to Sirius" and "The Link". Prosthetic Records.

The Mars Volta's "Amputechture" and "De-Loused in the Comatorium". Okay, I admit it - these guys are actually on a large label, BMG.

But that's it. Almost everything I buy lately is on indie labels.

So it isn't my fault that music sucks these days, and Justin Timberlake is a multi-platinum "recording" artist.
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October 5, 2007 3:36:00 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
I was just reinforcing your point, is all... Really, even if it didn't sound that way AT ALL.

Hey, well, I'm not going to tell you the last ones I bought. I am responsible.
*hangs head in shame*

But I don't KNOW the independent music. And since it's illegal to peer-to-peer, I don't. So I won't GET to know. So I won't BUY their music, I'll go buy the Essential Stevie Ray Vaughn (Epic), Back in Black by AC/DC, or Eliminator by ZZ Top, or maybe ever Dark Side of the Moon... classic rock stuff. Because I know it, I like it, and I want to rock.
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October 5, 2007 3:43:28 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
I want to rock.


Lots of indie labels have sample tracks on their albums, so you can decide if you want to hear more. Specifically, go check out Neurot Recordings. They've got real rock. In comparison to this, AC/DC doesn't rock. It's sissy stuff.
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October 5, 2007 4:12:22 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
Okay, I want to 'sissy' rock.

I might check it out later, right now I'm going down to Tin Pan Alley.
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October 5, 2007 4:19:11 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
It'd only be $23.76 if she downloaded from ITunes at $0.99 a song.

Still, this whole premise is complete bullshit...I must agree with you, SanCho.

~Zoo
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October 7, 2007 7:23:36 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

But I don't KNOW the independent music. And since it's illegal to peer-to-peer, I don't. So I won't GET to know. So I won't BUY their music, I'll go buy the Essential Stevie Ray Vaughn (Epic), Back in Black by AC/DC, or Eliminator by ZZ Top, or maybe ever Dark Side of the Moon... classic rock stuff. Because I know it, I like it, and I want to rock.

There are free places online to find the independent music and get it streamed to you quite legally.  Some places better than others, but there are stations legally streaming that offer up a wide variety of music.  You could also legally get paid subscription(s) to Sirius or XM, or enhanced subs to services like Rhapsody.  If you poke around a little, you can find the stuff out there where you need not worry about being in trouble for sharing the music in a non-legal means.

Of course what I'm saying doesn't change the fact that 'the man' runs, and has (basically) ruined commercial radio with too many repeated plays of absolute crap (Justin Timberlake, Timbaland and some other crap off the top 40 list currently is a fine example of same).  You will still find too much over-commercialized and over-produced and over-played crap on services like Sirius and XM, and Rhapsody, Windows Media site, etc.

Search around a little though, and you can start avoiding a lot of that crap and find more under promoted artists.

Try a google search like this one: independent artists streaming radio

and get results like this: http://www.vradio.com/ or this: http://www.radioaid.com/aboutus.php  or others.

 

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October 7, 2007 8:05:19 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums
PANDORA! IT'S ALL ABOUT PANDORA!

This is how you find new music, Jythier.

Or: you can download audio scrobbler, and get yourself a last.fm page, where you can get lots of suggestions based on your own musical tastes. You have no idea how many great groups I've found through those two means.
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